25-01-2005 06:02									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Odin I think LBJ gets a bad rap, Not going to Vietnam would of opened him up to accusations of being "soft on Communism". He was screwed either way. Besides vietnam, he was a great president. Great Society:

You ought to see that film about McNamara. McNamara had planned to draw down our troops in Vietnam in '64. He was not only overruled when Johnson took power, he was severely castigated. In almost every respect, the way Vietnam was escalated from a war fought by Vietnamese into a war fought by Americans was his fault and only his fault.

While Johnson's intentions may have been noble, his execution was extremely flawed.

	25-01-2005 06:23									#212
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according to the history channel, is generals advised LBJ that he would have to raise troop levels to 100,000. iirc he raised them higher than that.

	25-01-2005 09:20									#213
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Bush is pushing through his second post election spending bill and it is yet another monster. Another $80 billion for Iraq for a total of $105 billion in the last year and some where around $200-$250 billion since the start of the invasion. MSNBC said on tonight's broadcast that the $105 billion spent in Iraq over the last year was 13 times the total budget for the enviromental protection agency, could have refurbished every school in America twice, or doubled the number of schools in America. It could have provided subway systems to each of America's ten lagest cities, it could have done so many things but now it is all gone.

To compare Bush promised just $3 billion in new funds for education but he stiffed America's children to the toon of $1.8 billion. He steals school books he promised to children but he spends big for Halliburton. This wouldn't be so bad if the war in Iraq was actually necissary but we all know it wasn't nor did it ever have anything to do with international terrorism. How is Bush not the worst President in living memory?

To compare Kennedy stood firm during to Krushiv during the Cuban missile crisis plus lead a very strong economy, Johnson halved the poverity rate in America , Carter was the first to successfully push for mid-east peace & vastly improved relations with Latin America (supporting deomcratic change in several countries), and Clinton presided over the greatest economic expansion and creation of wealth in the history of humanity.

Of the recent Republican Presidents Bush Sr was by far the best since he worked hard to fix Reagan's monsterous deficits but being a good manager only gets you so far so he ended as a one termer, Reagan gets an A for vision but an D- in economics and a C- in ethics, Ford was a lame duck do nothing plus who conspired to pardon the biggest criminal ever to stain the office of President Speaking of Nixon he gets an F- for ethics and should have spent the rest of his life in jail, a C for economics, and a B- for foreign policy. George W gets a D in economics for his dificts and his poor financial management, a D in foreign policy since he managed to turn just about everyone against us dispite simpathy from 9/11, a D in morality since he lied about Iraq, his blatant pandering to special interests who pay him money, and the blatant political favors he gives to "donors" who pay bribes (enron or Halliburton anyone?); finally he does get a B in military matters. He would have done better if he had listened to he Generals about needing to rebuild Afghanistan and Iraq after the wars but like Nero he fiddled and now he has problems.

Last edited by Oerdin on 25-01-2005 at 09:41

	25-01-2005 15:25									#214
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Oerdin, Carter does deserve credit for his mid-East diplomacy. But you should be aware that it was Henry Kissinger who laid the groundwork with his shuttle diplomacy and giving substantial foreign aid to Egypt to get it to "sever" its relations with the USSR. Once the US had good relations with Egypt, everything else was possible for Carter.

	25-01-2005 15:28									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident according to the history channel, is generals advised LBJ that he would have to raise troop levels to 100,000. iirc he raised them higher than that.

Dis, all I can say is see that movie about McNamara. You have Johnson himself speaking to Robert S., reversing McNamara's announced intention of essentially pulling out of Vietnam in '64.