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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
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quote:
you must admit that he still has four years to vindicate himself somehow, although I personally don't see a way. He's about sixty years too late to defeat Hitler... |
I'll nominate Wilson, whose stubborness ruined his dream of the League of Nations and was an utterly racist idiot. Harding, for running a den of corruption and didn't care a whit.
quote:
Rutherford B. Hayes who, like he-who-shall-not-be-named-in-this-thread, stole his election to the presidency, and paid back his South Carolinian supporters by ending Reconstruction, a move that cost black Americans their life, liberty, and property well into the 20th century. |
Frankly, I wouldn't not put him on a list. His inclusion is a result of NOT seeing the alternative! Tilden's VP choice was a KLAN member. You think ending Reconstruction was bad? I'm sure Tilden would have tried to repeal the 13th Amendment.
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Jack_www
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I would have to say Jimmy Carter.
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Imran Siddiqui
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The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:30
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quote:
Read up on 19th century presidential politics. Candidates didn't pick their own veeps. The party picked them to balance the ticket. Sounds like they picked a crap veep, but its got nothing to do with how Tilden would have governed, and nothing to do with how Hayes did govern. |
You don't think a major player in the Democratic party, like Governor Tilden, had any say over his own Veep? Furthermore, Tilden was against emancipation when it came up during the Civil War. The Democratic Party platform was against Reconstruction as well.
So whether Hayes or Tilden won, Reconstruction was going to end.
quote:
Oh, come on. Do you evaluate Nixon based on your opinions of Ed Muskie and Sargant Shriver? Do you evaluate Bush based on your opinions of Edwards and Lieberman? That's a very...strange...way of looking at it. |
Well.. yes. It's a very strange way of analyzing Presidents without looking at the context of their time and the possible opponents.
And Bush would be analyzed by comparing him to Gore/Lieberman and Kerry/Edwards and whether they would have done a better job. Both Lieberman and Edwards were fairly similar to their President-nominees in main beliefs.
Btw, some other things about Hayes:
http://elections.harpweek.com/09Ver...eID=1&Year=1876
quote:
Hayes took office with many Americans believing he had been elected by fraud, with a Democratic majority in the House (and also in the Senate after 1878), and with his own party divided into rival and often hostile factions. With diligence and integrity the new president was able to overcome some of those impediments. He was assisted by talented cabinet members, especially Secretary of State William Evarts, Treasury Secretary John Sherman, and Interior Secretary Carl Schurz. Hayes formally ended Reconstruction by removing the remaining federal troops from political duty in the South; he advanced the cause of civil service reform, laying the foundation for the latter passage of the Pendleton Act (1883); and he saw to the enforcement of the Resumption of Specie Act, which placed the United States back on the gold standard. His pragmatic, measured response to the Great Railroad Strike of 1877—remaining neutral between strikers and management, and only allowing the limited use of federal troops to keep the peace when state or local officials requested assistance—probably saved lives and property. By the end of his term, economic prosperity had returned. A supporter of a single-term presidency, he declined to run for reelection.
In retirement, Hayes continued to speak out on public issues, supporting veterans’ pensions and the federal regulation of business (e.g., the Interstate Commerce Act). Committed to the diffusion and progress of education, he served as trustee of the Peabody Fund, a charity aimed at educating poor Southern blacks and whites, and as first president of the Slater Fund, established to aid the education of blacks. He urged Congress to allocate monies to supplement educational funding in poor states and territories. He was on the board of trustees of The Ohio State University, Ohio Wesleyan University, and Western Reserve University. He also served as president of the National Prison Association, and opposed the death penalty. |
Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 15-01-2005 at 13:53
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:30
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Reagan, for not knowing his ethics from his elbow, and helping to prolong the life of the apartheid regime in South Africa, whilst also propping up a horde of tyrants, despots and dictators, from the Americas, through Africa to Asia, and giving aid to fanatics, war criminals and terrorists, all the time bleating about the Soviet Evil Empire.
Nixon- for doing his very level crooked, potty-mouthed, best, to demean an office which had once been filled by people of the calibre of Thomas Jefferson, who for all his faults, seems like St. Francis of Assisi in comparison.
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VJ
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Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:30
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JFK was the worst one in the 20th century... I haven't read enough to properly comment on the 19th century ones, and there aren't any really bad ones among the 18th century ones.
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Winston, talking about Carter:
people, at least here, laughed at him just about everywhere he went. |
You did? Hey, the whole nation of Egypt prayed just because of his hemorrhoids  ... I wouldn't call that lack of respect.
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All this on the backdrop of a scandalized Republican party, which should have given him an easy time |
How was it scandalized? I'm not really sure what are you talking about...
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pursuing his agenda, if he'd only had one... |
You can blame Carter for many things, but not for lack of agenda. On the contrary, he was way too idealistic when it came to foreign policy.
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Nixon- for doing his very level crooked, potty-mouthed, best, to demean an office which had once been filled by people of the calibre of Thomas Jefferson, who for all his faults, seems like St. Francis of Assisi in comparison. |
Nixon kept the hippies in check and managed to end Vietnam... he should've surrendered sooner, though. Many useless casualties, same pathetic outcome.
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Dr Strangelove
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I'd have to nominate Warren Harding, who drank himself to death while still in office, and was once actually seen ******** his secretary in his office window. He was without a doubt America's Caligula.
Where the heck did you guys pull up the idea that that Wilson was a pedophile?
Regarding his failure to secure America's entry into the League of Nations, bear in mind that Willson fell ill even before returning to the US. There is good evidence that he may have suffered a small stroke while in Europe. His failure to enlist the co-operation of the US Congress can be attributed to a medical decline in his faculties. The rampant bigotry and chauvinism prevalent within the two American legislative bodies also has to be taken into account.
Finally, considering Wilson's support for "Seperate but Equal" remember that at the time when Wilson supported this doctrine, the 1880s, it was revolutionary and very controversial. Prior to "Seperate but Equal" the norm was "Seperate and Nothing". It was an uphill battle to convince the white male voting public to give black people anything, even the right to appear in public in proximity to white folks. When the NAACP appeared on the American scene at the turn of the century and began to demand true equality many of these white voters blamed liberals like Wilson.
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
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Carter was a terrible president, presiding over a collapse of American confidence internationally and economically. |
American confidence had already been decimated by Nixon, Ford, and Vietnam. Our alliance system was nearly in shambles, the armed forces were struggling to adjust to the end of the draft. Communist insurgencies were gaining throughout Africa and Latin America. Carter was at least a notably moral man and began to regain the trust of our allies. Of course the fact that the Commies stupidly applied terror tactics against our allies in Europe also helped. People forget that he also began the reversal of the tide of the Cold War by engaging Communist insurgents on the covert level. They also forget that the US economy was already in disarray after Ford's "WIN" fiasco and the oil embargos.
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VJ
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Helsinki
Dec 2001
time: 07:30
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quote:
You think JFK was worse then Hoover? |
Hoover didn't really solve any problems but it's not like he was actively creating 'em either. Kennedy thought with his balls instead of his brains.
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Don't you remember about Nixon & Watergate? |
That was "scandalizing" republican party in 1980? Can't americans get over scandals quicker or something? I mean, Watergate was eight years before that. Are some people still obsessed with Clinton's penis eight years after Monica?
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so Johnson should have really taken the gloves off and invaded North Vietnam in 1964-65 and threatened the Communist Chinese with war in Korea & Vietnam plus unlimited air and navel bombing unless they stopped supplying the NVA |
Yes, I agree. But Nixon entered the White House in January 1969. With the hippies at the home front and civilians (EDIT: Vietnamese civilians, co-operating with the commies instead of US army) which had turned against US because of the use of draftees at the main front, there was little what Nixon could do anymore. Goldwater would've been an ideal president to solve US' problems in Vietnam.
Heresson, http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/
Last edited by VJ on 15-01-2005 at 20:22
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Dr Strangelove
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quote:
Originally posted by VJ
Hoover didn't really solve any problems but it's not like he was actively creating 'em either. Kennedy thought with his balls instead of his brains.
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Hoover was a major supporter of the Taft-Smoot-Hawley Act, a xenophobic bit of legislation which restricted foreign investment in the US. At that time foreigners held about 15% of US stock holdings. Black Friday occurred shortly after the introduction of this bill as foreign investors stampeded to get out of the US stock market, fearing that their holdings were going to be liquidated. So yes, Hoover did indeed create a problem. OTOH the legislation was bipartisan, so the whole US government had a part in creating the Great Depression. Unfortunately the act was so popular that it could not be rescinded until WW2.
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That was "scandalizing" republican party in 1980? Can't americans get over scandals quicker or something? I mean, Watergate was eight years before that. Are some people still obsessed with Clinton's penis eight years after Monica?
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I heard another Clinton joke just the other day, so yes, they are. You don't know us very well. quote:
Yes, I agree. But Nixon entered the White House in January 1969. With the hippies at the home front and civilians (EDIT: Vietnamese civilians, co-operating with the commies instead of US army) which had turned against US because of the use of draftees at the main front, there was little what Nixon could do anymore. Goldwater would've been an ideal president to solve US' problems in Vietnam.
Heresson, http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/ |
Unless Goldwater were planning on keeping us out of Vietnam entirely I doubt he would have done better. The problem is that "containment" was very popular at the time so he would have had a great deal of difficulty keeping us out of Vietnam. In fact, Goldwater had close ties with the John Birch society, so he would have been greatly pressured to commit troops to Vietnam.
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15-01-2005 10:37
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