18-01-2005 05:11									#91
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i know that some cases that they thought were tortures turned out to be american and/or british soldiers playing pranks, like one where the alleged "iraqi victim" was a british soldier who was screwing around with a couple of american soldiers.

	18-01-2005 05:19									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin And Seymour Hersh bases this on what? His wishful thinking?

He's been right more often than the Bush White House has been truthful. Between the two I'd trust Hersch over the WH anyday.

	18-01-2005 05:22									#93
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara He's been right more often than the Bush White House has been truthful. Between the two I'd trust Hersch over the WH anyday.

yeah Seymour Hersch (sp?) has more credibility in his left nut than all of the Bush administration combined... and that includes Colin "uncle tom" Powell.

	18-01-2005 05:28									#94
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Ted, we all the know the problem here. Criminal acts of bad soldiers are said to be "US Government Policy." During the same breath, the likes of Michael Moore praise Saddam Hussein and his peaceful and happy Iraq, completely ignoring and excusing his reign of terror. We can all recall the Sean Penn trip to Iraq. He praised the peaceful Saddam and condemned the evil warmongering Bush.

You guys on the left always side with evil. It is predictable.

	18-01-2005 05:33									#95
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you should run a website ned... that way I can explore on my own the nedaverse... where all these things happen in that world that don't happen in the real world.

	18-01-2005 05:42									#96
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quote: Originally posted by Kaak and none of us have enough information to know which is going on, so maybe we should just stop talking out of our collective asses?

So why do you visit the OT again?

	18-01-2005 05:43									#97
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I love how people ***** about the need for better intelligence and then ***** when they get it...

	18-01-2005 05:44									#98
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Sava, no one is disputing what has happened. What I am pointing out is the fantasy world the left lives in where it seeks to explain all events with some anti-American spin. The conspiracy theories abound, do they not? Tin hats? You guys are really tuned into the oracle. You know that American is actually behind every criminal act ever committed in the world. Either America, or the Zionist entity. Do I read you correctly?

	18-01-2005 05:45									#99
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Cut the crap.

	18-01-2005 05:46									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Sava, no one is disputing what has happened. What I am pointing out is the fantasy world the left lives in where it seeks to explain all events with some anti-American spin. The conspiracy theories abound, do they not? Tin hats? You guys are really tuned into the oracle. You know that American is actually behind every criminal act ever committed in the world. Either America, or the Zionist entity. Do I read you correctly?

	18-01-2005 06:04									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Cut the crap.

Oh how I wish you guys would.

	18-01-2005 06:11									#102
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I see you have discovered the ALT-F9 "You hate America" keyboard shortcut.

	18-01-2005 06:14									#103
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In Nedaverse, the prisoners victimise the system.

	18-01-2005 06:20									#104
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Enough with the personal stuff...

Discuss the TOPIC... NOT the POSTERS!

	18-01-2005 07:39									#105
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Bush just told NBC news that he "hopes" diplomacy will win, but that he will not rule out any options.

He said the same thing when asked about Iraq.


Of course the word "freedom" was used in about every other sentence.

	18-01-2005 07:46									#106
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Ted, does anyone really have any hope that diplomacy will succeed?

	18-01-2005 07:48									#107
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Uhhhhh...

Yeah?

	18-01-2005 08:00									#108
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Response from the Pentagon
http://www.cnn.com/2005/ALLPOLITICS...iran/index.html


I guess the most damning indictment of the original article is Hersh's attempt at a counter ...

quote: Hersh described DiRita's criticisms as "quibbling."

To quote a rather famous cricket commentator 'Dear oh dear oh dear Mr Kumble'.

Looks as though journalistic integrity took a bit of a vacation ...

	18-01-2005 08:05									#109
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They didn't deny it either:

quote: But the Pentagon's response did not specifically address Hersh's contention that the United States has been "conducting secret reconnaissance missions inside Iran since at least last summer" to identify and isolate at least three dozen targets in Iran "that could be destroyed by precision strikes and short-term commando raids."

Secondly, the Pentagon is no longer run by the Pentagon. It is run by the White House.

quote: "There are serious people on the inside who don't like what's going on and don't have a way to communicate that," he said. "The real issue is: What are we doing? Who's in control here? The Pentagon? The White House? That's the real issue."

	18-01-2005 08:19									#110
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I'm not surprised they didn't deny that part - more than likely that's entirely true and only half the picture besides.
There could well be similar ops planned/underway aimed at Syria as well ...


The portions they do ridicule however (and that Hersh makes little effort to defend) are the most inflammatory - ie: connections to Israel in particular.
It's a near certainty that they would've been consulted in the intel-gathering phase as they are pretty good in that department but Hersh's article deliberately insinuates Israelis taking part in planning military action against targets - a subject sure to inflame Arab passions (and of course, entirely coincidentally, sell his story ... ).

	18-01-2005 08:21									#111
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I don't think he's in it to sell his story, he is doing it warn people about what is going on.

Again, this is the same man that broke Abu Gharib and the My Lai Massacre in Vietnam.

In the case of Abu Gharib and with this case about Iran, it was people on the inside that came to him and needed an outlet to warn the public.

	18-01-2005 08:22									#112
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Anyone hoping for impeachment?

	18-01-2005 08:29									#113
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Selling a story may not be the entirety of his motivation but it sure looks as though he's used a little 'creative licensing' in spicing it up.

	18-01-2005 09:11									#114
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Because Rummy's mouthpiece says so? If anything, that adds to the credibility of Hersh's story.

	18-01-2005 09:27									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Agathon Anyone hoping for impeachment?

Unfortunatley I don't see how we could do it.

Only something that has no real meaning in the state of world order, such as the President having sex with another woman other than his wife, could do it.

Sad state of affairs we live in.

	18-01-2005 09:53									#116
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Four more wars!

	18-01-2005 09:56									#117
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Adding Iran would make 3.

North Korea makes four?

We should have been in Afghanistan and Afghanistan only.

	18-01-2005 10:02									#118
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My first post is just flippant.

It's a totally bad idea to do anything military in Iran, including using special forces to collect intelligence. To bomb their facilities is to invite a lot of hurt and grief.

	18-01-2005 10:06									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo Because Rummy's mouthpiece says so?

Because it's entirely based on anonymous sources making outlandish claims being reported by a journalist with an ax to grind. The Iraqi prison scandal at least had pictures.

	18-01-2005 10:16									#120
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Because it's entirely based on anonymous sources making outlandish claims

You mean like weapons of mass destruction ?