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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by aksully
Curious...do you more experienced players let the governors do your city management for you or do you prefer to do it yourself? I'm a micro-manager by nature myself. |
I do it quite often on my easy-going difficulty (currently Emperor). Saves a lot of MM. But if playing on high difficulty, there's no way around managing all citizens per hand. The governors, even if used correctly (the "emphasize food/production/trade" option is your friend), lose too much in the long run. They are only good for easy games, or when you are an absolute beginner.
I tried using governors to choose production, but there seems to be no way for that to work well, so just don't bother.
quote:
Originally posted by aksully
Would also like your thoughts on tech tree strategy.
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Research things the others don't have. Research expensive things, to trade them around for huge revenue. Don't bother with non-mandatory technology (exceptions: Monarchy or Republic, Literature; sometimes: Military Tradition, Economics, Communism, Sanitation). Don't listen to the Science Advisor. His choices will surely doom you, except on very low difficulty levels.
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
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The general idea is to use beelines to go for valueable techs and then do some smart trading to get the ones you missed while doing the beeline, and still come out ahead.
The first that springs to mind is the obvious Philosophy beeline, because of the free tech. If you start with Alphabet (Com or Sea), this is fairly easy to do. In fact, playing on Monarch, I typically try to research Code of Laws first, then Philo, and take Republic as my free tech.
I'll hang on to Writing for a while, and maybe a few turns before I'm gonna get CoL, I'll trade that around for as much as I can get. Sometimes this doesn't work - sometimes the AI gets to writing faster than I'd like. But it works a lot.
Still, I typically manage to get Philo first, get Republic and switch over. Then I'll trade either Philo, CoL, or both to the AI for all sorts of goodies (I'm rather stingy with the AI - they have to pay up somethin' good, or they will remain dumb, period). Then I'll make a choice on whether or not to go for Monarchy (for more trading and/or to build the Hanging Gardens) or to press on to the medieval age will all possible speed. Sometimes I get lucky and the AI hasn't gotten to Polytheism yet. This is a very valueable tech, so I may go for that & Monarchy, trade them, and take a shot at the HG.
Backing up... if you're religious, there is the "southern" route - Mysticism, Polytheism, Monarchy. The last two have a lot of trade value.
The AI tends to prioritize the military techs and map making. Eventually construction (so if I have a choice of researching currency or construction, I typically pick currency).
How's that for a start? Anyone wanna jump in?
-Arrian
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Dominae
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Welcome aksully. 
Agricultural is the best trait hands down.
After that, it's either Commercial or Seafaring because those give you Alphabet right off the bat. Alphabet is an extremely strong tech to start with: it's the most expensive (150% more trade value than Pottery and Ceremonial Burial), it allows you to build Curraghs right away for contacting other civs (assuming you have a coastal city), and most importantly it puts you that much closer to Philosophy and its free tech. Getting that free tech from Philosophy will either put you over the top barely 100 turns into the game, or will let you catch up to the competition in the blink of an eye. With two techs you can trade for everything all the AIs have available (techs, Gold, whatever).
So, IMO, Iroquois and Dutch are the most powerful civs. Personally I would go with the Dutch because I like Seafaring better than Commercial (reason: 3-move Curraghs) and I play on the higher difficulty levels where it's harder make Mounted Warriors really shine (sometimes it's just not wise to attack until the mid-Medieval era). The only problem with these two trait combinations is that you do not get any half-price improvements (well, except for Aqueducts), which can make you feel like you're crawling along. But just remember that with Agricultural, you are rarely "crawling along".
Religious is probably next, due to the short Anarchy thing. I like the 30-Shield Temples but recognize that they're not really essential: border expansion is mostly only needed when your city-spacing is somewhat wide, and the best way to fight cultural oppression is with swords and gunpowder, not Culture of your own.
Scientific is really close to Religious, IMO. If you rarely win the game before the Industrial era, I say Scientific is for you. Religous' only advantage in the late-game is a second switch to either Democracy or Communism, and IMO that's not as powerful as half-cost Universities and free techs. Oh, and Scientific has a greater chance of having an "oops, I win" Scientific Great Leader appear.
The last three traits are bleh. Expansionist is the best trait on the right maps (Huge, Pangea) and is also the best when you get a free Settler in the first 40 turns, but often you will get much less out of it (those players who swear by it are luckier than most!). Industrious is ok, but nothing to write home about. Finally, the best thing about Militaristic is the half-cost Harbors, but unortunately Seafaring does this too. Sometimes you "just win" with Militaristic because cheap Barracks and easy promotions are condusive to an early Military Great Leader, but this strat definitely does not work every game.
Trait synergy? Incans come to mind, for REXing. Babylonians for cultural dominance. Aztecs for early aggression. Vikings look synergistic on paper, but in my experience require a lot of work to pull off their mass Berzerker trick (no, the Vikings do not get 1/4-price Harbors). While not the most powerful civ around, Portugal is hands-down the best at getting Contacts.
Last edited by Dominae on 21-01-2005 at 09:30
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aksully
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Dominae and the rest of the guys... Thanks for all your input! Looks like I need to quit asking and git doing! It was interesting to see Dominae and Arrian's thought match up on Civ traits! Tonight the Iroquois nation arises! Tomorrow the Dutch! And Theseus...thanks for the F10 tip! I'll check it out on Turn 1.
I'm curious to see how Civ 4 will affect these and other strategies!??
Sully
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by aksully
I'm curious to see how Civ 4 will affect these and other strategies!??
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Unfortunately(?), I imagine most of the stuff you're reading here will not be at all applicable to Civ4. Personally, I think that's a good thing!
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gunkulator
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Another chime in for the Iroquois and the Dutch.
In all my difficulty level move-ups, I always start the next level with the Iroquois followed by the Dutch. I figure if I can't win with them, I don't belong on that level yet.
I find it amusing that so many civ'ers have made the same independent conclusion.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Arrian
Sumer is a decent enough CIV, to be sure. I just worry about an ultra-early GA triggered by an AI hitting an Endiku (sp?). That, and the lack of the ability to do a warrior -> sword upgrade, but that's less important. |
I don't worry about an early GA, because I'm not going to war early. Various civs will usually come and demand things, usually before I even have my first Barracks city. So they get it, no questions asked (but hitlist updated  ). If I get attacked that early, the GA won't save me. OTOH, if they come knocking once I'm in Rapublic, with a couple productive cities... well, bring it on. 
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aksully
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I somehow changed my plans from trying the Irqouis or Dutch and went with the Celts. Had a great starting point on a river, was at the end of a continent so no Cis behind me, adequate resources near and not to far, and lots of hills and mountains. Nice distance towards the nearest civ (americans). With all that, and up to 3 cities, the AI civs all had 3 times the techs and just as much cash. Went to war against America (twice) cause two warriors were ejected a non-american soil after peace but I couldn't get them to an open tile! To make a long story short...on the second peace discussions I got 3 techs including iron-working. Lo and behold, I have not one source of iron in my territory! And I got hills and mountains all over! On the visible map there is only one source of iron. On a single hill next to Washington!!!!! Now that folks....sucks! I've never played on a standard map where there was just one source of iron close by.
Then to make matters worse...I just got Polytheism and the darn Incas demand I give it to them! I said Hell No politely and they've declared war on me! No matter, I just killed their scout and I don't even see them on the map yet! But the worse thing is without a close by supply of Iron I can't get any strong units including my UU the Galic Swordsman!!! Well looks like I will have to stop my Wonder construction and make a ton of spearmen....I'm gonna need them!
What the inside scoop on AI tech building? Why is it that they accumulate techs so quickly compared to us mere humans?
Sully
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Solomwi
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Don King of the Apolyton HLA Movement
Dec 2002
time: 23:30
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I can do you one worse than that (almost). I was playing the Iroquois on a huge, 60% water continents map, and had the Zulu and Arabs as my southern neighbors. Already, I'm a bit chagrinned at seeing the Zulu (Impis mean my Mounted Warriors can't retreat). However, that doubles when I get IW and discover on my entire, massive continent one single, solitary, lonely little source of iron... in Zulu territory. Fortunately, it was in a very underdeveloped section of their empire and in a thick mountain range, meaning they weren't a threat to have it hooked up anytime soon, but for sheer resource generation oddities, that beats all I've ever seen.
Oh, when I finally uncovered the other continent, I found, on a three or four civ continent, seven iron sources.
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by aksully
I somehow changed my plans from trying the Irqouis or Dutch and went with the Celts. Had a great starting point on a river, was at the end of a continent so no Cis behind me, adequate resources near and not to far, and lots of hills and mountains. Nice distance towards the nearest civ (americans). With all that, and up to 3 cities, the AI civs all had 3 times the techs and just as much cash. Went to war against America (twice) cause two warriors were ejected a non-american soil after peace but I couldn't get them to an open tile! To make a long story short...on the second peace discussions I got 3 techs including iron-working. Lo and behold, I have not one source of iron in my territory! And I got hills and mountains all over! On the visible map there is only one source of iron. On a single hill next to Washington!!!!! |
Build a bunch of Archers (6+) plus a few Spearmen, and beeline for Washington. It sucks that you cannot build your UU right away, but there's definitely a solution to your problem. Hang in there!
You seem to be doing a lot of early warfare. This is good as long as you are getting something accomplished, like extorting techs or claiming resources/land. Otherwise try to stay peaceful for a while and trade techs with your friends (for the time being). I'm guessing the AI has more techs than you because it is tech trading and you are not.
Also, unless you are playing on a Tiny map, three cities is not nearly enough. Try getting at least 7-8 before thinking about a Wonder.
Last thing: have fun.
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Modo44
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in western Poland
Jul 2004
time: 06:30
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quote:
Originally posted by aksully
But the worse thing is without a close by supply of Iron I can't get any strong units including my UU the Galic Swordsman!!! Well looks like I will have to stop my Wonder construction and make a ton of spearmen....I'm gonna need them! |
You don't need wonders to win the game. In fact many of them, especially the early ones, will only hurt you by making your most productive cities do nothing but the wonder for a looong time.
You don't need many defensive units either. If there's nothing else, make Archers - they can not only kill attackers (as can Spearmen), but they can also be sent to do some damage to your enemy. Weak, yes, but cheap, so you can make scores of them. If you can, build Horsemen - they don't need Iron. Add some Spearmen as defense, and you should be ok.
quote:
Originally posted by aksully
What the inside scoop on AI tech building? Why is it that they accumulate techs so quickly compared to us mere humans? |
They trade with each other much easier, than with the human. So, if one discovers a tech, most other AIs will have it soon.
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aksully
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They trade with each other much easier, than with the human. So, if one discovers a tech, most other AIs will have it soon. [/QUOTE]
Got It!
Sully
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Arrian
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Kneel before Grog!
Jul 2001
time: 00:30
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Yup, no iron = archer or horseman rush to go get some (not always, but usually that's a good idea).
Count your lucky stars its the Americans who have the iron, and not the Greeks (Hoplites!), Carthage (Numidians), Rome (Legions!) or Persians (Immortals!). THAT sucks.
Dom's suggestion (6+ archers and some spears and a beeline to Washington) sounds pretty good. If you have horses, you may wish to consider a horseman rush instead. That takes longer to set up, since horsies are 30 shields, and archers just 20. One way around that is to build chariots and delay getting horseback riding until you have a decent number of them, and then upgrade them to horsemen.
Either way, it's probably smart to hit the Americans. Hard.
-Arrian
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by vmxa1
If in doubt, listen to Dom and you can't go wrong. |
Sully, do not listen to vmxa1, listen to me: you can definitely go wrong by listening to Dom.
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21-01-2005 01:32
I've played FAR too much CivIII, and spent FAR, FAR, FAR too much time on these forums. 
And then there is the Mounted Warrior if you need it (and have horses, of course).
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