21-01-2005 12:28									#1
	Why has Communism failed everywhere ? A chance for commies to explain Full PM-box? Change here!

Why ? Why has it failed everywhere within a hundred years of inception , and caused a hundred million deaths in the process , both through slavery , and famine .

By contrast , no capitalist country has faced a famine , anywhere in the world . Ever . In its entire history .

Please tell me the reason for this monumental failure . Don't give me the claptrap about it never being implemented properly . If , in spite of so much effort , you cannot implement an ideology properly , then it has failed . So tell me both , the reasons for the failure of the system as it was implemented , and for the failure of the implementation of the system as it was envisaged .

And don't give me the example of China as successful , it is now a semi-capitalist country , where the state provides businesses slave labour , and then keeps half the profits of the business for itself - thus it's ability to survive .

Please answer this question sincerely . No trolls , pelase . I seriously want to understand the mentality of people who will adhere to an ideology that has achieved the opposite of what it promised .

	21-01-2005 12:30									#2
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Own goal!

	21-01-2005 12:30									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

100-10!

	21-01-2005 12:30									#4
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: By contrast , no capitalist country has faced a famine , anywhere in the world . Ever . In its entire history

Wha? Ask an Irishman.

	21-01-2005 12:31									#5
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: 1987 ~ Famine of Saurashtra, India After the floods of 1982 and 1983, a severe drought had been sweeping through Gujarat for the last 3 years. A few other states were also effected but to a lesser degree. It was this century’s worst famine and the third successive famine this year, which had taken a heavy toll of life, especially livestock.

http://www.swaminarayan.org/activit...ef/famine87.htm

	21-01-2005 12:32									#6
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Half the people in this thread have commie avatars and Che isn't one of them. Traitor!!!

	21-01-2005 12:34									#7
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: Please tell me the reason for this monumental failure.

There are several. The capitalist countries did all they could to destabilize them.

The kind of central planning they tried was not feasible with the technology they had.

Capitalism had not yet run its course.

The revolutions took place in backward societies instead of the advanced industrial countries that Marx had predicted.

	21-01-2005 12:34									#8
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

I'm still trying to pick a new one.

	21-01-2005 12:36									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I don't mind Lenin, because Russian Communism has that nice heartless libertarian-esque quality to it. It lets its citizens freeze and die.

	21-01-2005 12:37									#10
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

OP: start by reading all the old communism vs capitalism debate threads

	21-01-2005 12:40									#11
	Increase Your PM Length

The real reason is that the dialectical process had not developed sufficiently. Now that the historical process has resulted in the new "hit it" policy of the CPA it is only a short time until the capitalists are overthrown and subject to socialist justice and really great nookie.

	21-01-2005 12:42									#13
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Agathon The real reason is that the dialectical process had not developed sufficiently. Now that the historical process has resulted in the new "hit it" policy of the CPA it is only a short time until the capitalists are overthrown and subject to socialist justice and really great nookie.

	21-01-2005 13:02									#14
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Simple reason: Because there's never been a communist country to begin with. They've always been oligarchies or totalitarians regimes or personality cults that only played/play lip service to communist principles.

	21-01-2005 13:05									#15
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Simple reason: Because there's never been a communist country to begin with. They've always been oligarchies or totalitarians regimes or personality cults that only played/play lip service to communist principles.

I never thought of you as a communist apologist.

	21-01-2005 13:06									#16
	Remove this text

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Ted Striker on 21-01-2005 at 13:11

	21-01-2005 13:06									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Psst, if we both edit our posts, nobody will understand what's going on in this conversation.

	21-01-2005 13:07									#18
	Remove this text

Yeah, I'll have to move my response !!

	21-01-2005 13:10									#19
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger OP: start by reading all the old communism vs capitalism debate threads

There's a deep evil streak in you UR?

	21-01-2005 13:12									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

@ Ted Striker -

India was by no means capitalist at that time . It was a "mixed economy" , a euphemish for super-socialist .

And all these reasons are sorta like excuses for failure . I want to know why the failure came about . And I have a request to make - try no to blame the capitalist nations for the fall of Communism . Capitalism had to struggle through tremendously hostile times - worse than the communists had to face - and still survived and flourished .

You say that it didn't happen the way Marx saw it . Why didn't it happen that is way is the question I'm asking . The replies made are akin to a kid saying "I got a bad grade because the exam was not the way I expected it" . That is stating the obvious . What is the question is , why did the exam not go as planned ?

Also , is it not a failure on the part of Marx that he could not make correct predictions ? If he is incorrect about his predictions , what makes you stick to his ideas in everything else ?

My second question has not yet been answered - why do commies stick to communism if it has failed ( and caused much misery in the world in the process ) ?

	21-01-2005 13:15									#21
	Support Apolyton

quote: Capitalism had to struggle through tremendously hostile times - worse than the communists had to face - and still survived and flourished

Like looting the rest of the world in the 19th century?

	21-01-2005 13:16									#22
	Put an end to popups!

Dreams founder upon the reality of the human soul.

	21-01-2005 13:16									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by DRoseDARs Simple reason: Because there's never been a communist country to begin with. They've always been oligarchies or totalitarians regimes or personality cults that only played/play lip service to communist principles.

Does this still not imply the failure of the ideology , as it means that the ideology has failed the test of being implemented ? It does not matter if the ideology failed in implementation or practice , it matters that it failed . I ask why it failed , wherever it did .

	21-01-2005 13:19									#24
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Why has aneeshm failed to stop doing that wierd , and moderately annoying , thing he keeps doing with his puncuation ?

Please , aneeshm , stop that .

	21-01-2005 13:20									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Agathon quote: Capitalism had to struggle through tremendously hostile times - worse than the communists had to face - and still survived and flourished Like looting the rest of the world in the 19th century?

Japan , Honk Kong , America , Chile , they all looted the world , didn't they ? Now so is India , isn't it ( not that India is fully capitalist yet , but it is slowly getting there ) ?

	21-01-2005 13:22									#26
	Tired of ads?

quote: Now so is India , isn't it ( not that India is fully capitalist yet , but it is slowly getting there ) ?

Would I rather live there, or in Germany?

Tough question...

	21-01-2005 13:28									#27
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Does this still not imply the failure of the ideology , as it means that the ideology has failed the test of being implemented ? It does not matter if the ideology failed in implementation or practice , it matters that it failed . I ask why it failed , wherever it did .

For it to be a worakable ideology, it has to ignore Human nature. It requires everyone sacrifice their own greedy needs in favor of equally addressing everyone's needs. The moment you start having "Haves-and-Have-Nots" or people who are "more equal" than everyone else (comes from the book Animal Farm) then the system ceases to be Communist, instead becoming some bastardized version of it. You wouldn't honestly call Saddam Hussein's elections "democratic" for the same reason: They betrayed the ideals of the democratic system.

Do I feel Communism is better than say Democracy? No, quite the opposite actually, but it irritates me to no end that people continually confuse "Communism" for the governments those people keep pointing to and saying "See?! See?! Communism doesn't work!"

	21-01-2005 13:31									#28
	Support Apolyton

Would you rather live in a country which is capitalist ( with some socialist aspects ) which has been independent and economically powerful for a long time , or in one which was subjugated by imperialist statist non-free-trade non-capitalist oppression for a hundred and fifty years , and which after achieving independence chose to cripple itself economically , by dreaming wistfully of a "mixed-economy" utopia , and which has only very recently tired to do away with its socailist legacy ?

Own goal !

Last edited by aneeshm on 21-01-2005 at 13:37

	21-01-2005 13:35									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

@ DRoseDARs

I do not confuse these governments with communism as it was envisaged . I associate them with communism as it was practiced ( or calimed to be practiced ) . If communism is going to degenerate into something like those governments every time , is it not a failed ideology ?

	21-01-2005 13:35									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

because they werenb't true comminsism

also it is likely for any revoltuition to gail

jon Miller