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techumseh
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of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:29
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quote:
Schwarzenegger 'damages Austria'
The execution sparked protests from California to Austria
Arnold Schwarzenegger's Austrian citizenship should be ended over the execution of a convicted killer in the US, a politician in Austria has said.
Peter Pilz, of the Green Party, said the Californian governor broke Austrian law by allowing Donald Beardslee's death by lethal injection on Wednesday.
He said Mr Schwarzenegger, who has dual nationality, had "heavily damaged the reputation of the republic."
He has submitted a formal written request to the Austrian government.
"Schwarzenegger is possibly the most prominent Austrian abroad, and he shapes the picture of Austria," Mr Pilz said.
"I don't want that picture shaped by someone who commits state murder. That does not correspond to the political culture of this country."
Capital punishment 'unacceptable'
Mr Pilz said Austrian law states that citizenship can be revoked if an Austrian "in the service of another country substantially damages the interests or reputation of the republic by his or her behaviour."
Mr Pilz said: "Capital punishment is unacceptable in Austria and in Europe, and no Austrian citizen may take part in it or arrange it."
The Austrian interior ministry has not commented on Mr Pilz's request, which appears unlikely to hold much sway with Austria's conservative government.
Beardslee, 61, convicted of two killings in 1981, was given a lethal injection at San Quentin State Prison.
The execution came hours after Mr Schwarzenegger rejected a clemency petition. In Vienna, it triggered a small but spirited protest outside the US embassy.
In Graz, near Mr Schwarzenegger's birthplace of Thal, the Greens have been campaigning to rename Schwarzenegger Stadium, a sports venue, over his support for capital punishment. |
I wonder how far they will get?
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shawnmmcc
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No, it's a valid point (by the Austrian government). It's not a case of left or right, Oerdin, but a different set of national values. If you publically defacto repudiate some of those values, especially in the case of someone serving in a foreign government, then revoking his citizenship is appropriate.
Even if you support the concept of the death penalty (which I do) the process in the United States is so severely flawed that you do not need to be a lefty to oppose it. Also given the fact that the US does not seem to be able to deal with these procedural factors - lack of effective council for the indigent, lack of sanctions against prosecutors who flout due process (look up the case of John Demjanjuk - a deportation that ended up on an Israeli death row, but I'm talking about the prosecutor's behavior), problems with charging juveniles with capital crimes, and problems with mental competence issues (if you have to drug them so they are competent to stand trial - doesn't that ipso facto mean they were incompetent when they did the crime) just look at the case of the woman convicted in Texas after killing her children who couldn't have her reversal explained to her due to her continued deterioration into a deeply psychotic state (the prosecution used a trumped up expert to claim she was mentally competent).
The case of the ex-governor (a Republican, by the way) of Illinois who tried to get the US to examine how we convict criminals went no where. This came as a reaction to the Innocence Project and other cases, largely with DNA evidence, that showed ALOT of innocent people were on death row. The man Arnold had executed deserved it. The problem is that the system is broken, and the Austrian government, and for that factor many governments, do not trust the US Criminal Justice system. That should be a matter of shame for our country, and a national crisis. If the Austrians choose to say no Austrian citizen can participate in death penalty procedures, that's their right. Just like Californians can choose to vote for Arnold, that's their right. Just as we have the right to post here and argue in the ridiculously wee hours of the morinng. 
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Atahualpa
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Hawthrone
Mar 1999
time: 06:29
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Yeah yeah Adolf Hitler, Jörg Haider....
What exactly has Haider ever done than holding stupid talks (not that I like this either)? I tell you, haider is dead! He has no support anymore. His party (which is not his anymore) has gone down in all "state" elections tremendously. I mean it's the very opposite of sky-rocketed. The FPÖ is dead and I am very fine with this.
You are totally right! I am so sick of hearing all this nazi-past ****, but as soon as you start saying that in public, you'll be criticized to no end and "how dare you!!!" "Never forget" "We must always remember!". Last time I heard someone *****ing around in a reproaching manner that so little Austrians visit places like Auschwitz and even more koreans do. Yeah? SO ****ING WHAT!!! We're all ****ing tired to hear this **** all day, we've been through this more than any other person on earth (excluding the germans of course).
But you can never say that out loud, because you'll be marked a nazi and insensitive and stupid and what not. Nobody is ever going to listen to you again, because we must never forget and this burden will last on us forever.
This is just sick.
When my friends come and roll their eyes on the newest holocaust book or movie which is in top charts and recommended by everyone so that we never forget. I just say to them to ****ing shut up, because the moment you start critizising something like this, is the moment you have made an ass out of yourself and none of the intellectuals will ever want to talk with you and without them nothing will ever move, cause the prolos are too obsessed with their own life and how to get the most out of the least and are happily driving around in cars with radios that they got for -50% because they were there at exactly the right moment in the right store.
This is soo sick.
This is sooo über sick. I hate this ****ing country and it's bigotted superficialness.
And Arnold is a ****ing idiot.
Last edited by Atahualpa on 23-01-2005 at 18:01
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shawnmmcc
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Guys, read some of the foreign press. They see the US death penalties procedures as barbaric, and actually see the Chinese as more advanced - they do not try juveniles for the death penalty. Our Latin American friends often have trouble with our border state, Texas, which I believe
http://bipolar.about.com/od/socialissues/a/040628_texas.htm
Here's one - note what the federal judge said - Texas does have some good jurisprudence.
http://texasmoratorium.org/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=130003&page_id=25&group=3
Plus the countries were are in good company with who execute those who were junveniles at the time of their crime.
[QUOTE]Juvenile offenders are executed.
International standards prohibit the execution of people who were under 18 at the time of the crime.
(UN Convention on the Rights of the Child)
Since 1990, only 5 countries have executed people for crimes committed as children:
Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, and USA. The USA has executed more than the other 4 combined.
QUOTE]
Many Americans don't see it as a problem, I am not one of them. I repeat, the Austrian government has the right to tell one of it's citizens who is involved in something it considers egregious and a violation of human rights that we are considering revoking your citizenship. It's akin to our plea deal with Yaser Esam Hamdi, he fought for the Taliban (probably before we attacked Afghanistan) and we don't want him as a citizen (though I agree with Scalia, go ahead with a treason trial - he should have renounced his citizenship based on his allegiances, the fact he didn't makes it tough).
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Proteus_MST
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Yes, I think it would be correct to terminate Arnolds austrian citizenship.
But for more formal reasons than those posted.
Arnold is a citizen of the USA, not only this, but he has also become a high ranking politician there.
Therefore I can´t see anything which, to date, still connects him to austria (aside from his origins).
Combined with the fact that he has an american wife, it becomes IMHO clear that his center of living isn´t austria anymore, but rather the USA.
Therefore I wouldn´t see him as austrian citizen anymore.
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Dr Strangelove
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Why was Arnold permitted to have a dual citizenship anyway? Technically they're unconstitutional. He should have been required to renounce his Austrian citizenship when he became an American citizen.
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shawnmmcc
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VJ - read some of the links. Both the British and Mexicans, to name two examples, have had MASSIVE problems with the Texas court systems and the death penalty. I'm not saying that US jurisprudence is the worst in the world - but when you are poor and up against the power of the state, it really sucks. I have a friend who got screwed over once, if you want about eight paragraphs I'll go into more details.
Suffice to say with one witness (who saw nothing, but just had an opinion and had worked with the child) and a Virginia prosecuting attorney up for reelection, after the hideous accidental death of his severely retarded six year old daughter, his pro-bono attorney who was a contract lawyer who had never done a jury trial moved to have a bench trial - no jury, just the judge and the lawyers (plus witnesses). After three hours the judge threw it out, with prejudice. My friend had been pushed to plea bargain throughout the case.
My friend is out five thousand dollars of bail bond (probably representing three YEARS of his disposable iincome, maybe more - and no, he does not have a car), and spent a year of his life with this hanging over his head. Read the John Demjanjuk case I referenced earlier. The US justice system is better than many countries out there - it still has alot of strutural issues.
Dinodoc, go back a year and read my thread and poll about turning Saddam over to the Shia or Kurds. To say well this man was innocent does not deal with a deeply flawed process. Either the US needs to make major structural changes to the criminal justice system, or it needs to eliminate the death penalty. Period.
I wish that prosecutors would be more willing to admit innocent people are convicted, or plea bargain to a lesser charge because they are scared of being ground up even worse by the system. If we could have two levels of guilt, beyond a reasonable doubt and beyond a rational doubt, that might help. If you look at the hoops innocent people wrongly convicted have been made to jump through to get ex-conviction DNA tests done, you might consider opposing the death penalty also.
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23-01-2005 14:15
. What utter nonsense!
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