26-01-2005 04:06									#31
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: I never clicked the link, I just started talking out of my arse like I always do...

But now you know who WEYCO Inc is.

	26-01-2005 04:10									#32
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Space05us Haha you are all fools! Thier marketing ploy worked, hahahaaha!! Before you opended this thread you had no idea who WEYCO Inc was and now you do. hahahahaa!!

Wrong! It only "worked" because of you... when reading articles I always skip names of the organisations/companies when reading, unless it's a specific case where knowing what company is being talked about is important...

	26-01-2005 04:22									#33
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: How would people feel here if the phrase "smokers" was changed to "Fat People" or "Gays"...

just fine thank you. freedom of association.

	26-01-2005 04:35									#34
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Just to play devil's advocate, what if a company fired you under the same rationale for your being overweight? One could argue that being overweight is as great or greater a health risk than smoking. Where do we draw the line, if this is okay for companies to do?

I'd think it personally sucked, but since I'd have had two years to try and do something about it, I could complain, really. Furthermore, I'd show them that I was actively losing weight and attempting to comply with their policies. If that failed, I'd go collect unemployment.

quote: Not true. I know plenty of people who are "social smokers." They only smoke cigarettes while out with friends at bars. Hell, I've had the occasional cigarette myself. Probably about once a year or so.

The vast majority of smokers are not social smokers. In my experience, social smokers fall into two catagories, people who used to smoke but have quit, and people who haven't become full-time smokers yet.

	26-01-2005 04:48									#35
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

I am a social smoker for over a year now and as it looks I am never going to start that **** for real and I never smoked for real. I don't like the taste and I don't like the smell.

I've got two packs at home, which I haven't touched since new year's day or so.

	26-01-2005 04:52									#36
	Tired of ads?

Absolutely out of order. I think smoking is a terrible habit but it is a socially acceptable addiction. Dismissing people for that is highly intrusive. Bastards like Henry Ford used to pry into people's private lives to justify the money he paid them...and this is no better

	26-01-2005 04:55									#37
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Maybe for the next act they could fire all the overweight people. Then the people who eat to much red meat. Or the ones who drink. Or the ones who are too old. Or the ones who have a family history of cancer. Or the ones who drink caffeine. Or the ones who are susceptible to being pregnant. Or the ones who live in a high smog area. Or the ones who don't wear podiatrist approved shoes. Or the ones who can't run fast enough. Or the ones that live in old houses with lead paint. Or the ones who don't wash their hands. Or the ones who sunbathe. Or the ones who used to have aspestos in the home. Or the ones who never got the measles. Or the ones who never got chicken pox. Or the ones without smallpox vaccination scars. Or the ones who never got their appendix out. Or the ones who have tattoos. Or the ones who use to much mayonnaise on their sandwich.


I call bullshit.

	26-01-2005 05:09									#38
	Tired of ads?

I'm willing to bet that there will be a lawsuit over this and it will be successful eventually. The government has no interest in protecting companies from having their employees rack up a big medical bill on company insurance, because the alternative is having them rack up a big medical bill on the government provided insurance.

	26-01-2005 05:15									#39
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: The government has no interest in protecting companies from having their employees rack up a big medical bill on company insurance,

And in states like this one, they also have no interest in protecting the former employees.

	26-01-2005 05:31									#40
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ming If they are going to do that, they should also fire anybody that's over weight... anybody that drinks... gays... and anybody else who could fall into the category of having a higher risk of health problems. How would people feel here if the phrase "smokers" was changed to "Fat People" or "Gays"...

Sums it up quite nicely.

	26-01-2005 05:52									#41
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I have no problem with the OWNERS of the company making it a no smoking work area. Their right. But to fire people who smoke because of "possible" additional health care costs... that's just pure BS. If I was one of the employees, I'd laugh all the way to court knowing a VERY BIG pay day was coming at their expense. Their medical insurance costs might go down, but they will need the money to pay off the team of lawyers who are doomed to lose

	26-01-2005 05:55									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

This is quite ridiculous. Of course, it'll work, PR wise, because while smoking isn't illegal, it doesn't enjoy the best of reputations. I would be interested if companies fired those over a certain weight for prohibitive health care costs or those that live in certain dangerous areas, to see the reaction of people.

	26-01-2005 05:59									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

PR wise is nice... but they will lose in court on this one.

If this passes the "legal" test, it opens the door for all kinds of discrimination. Watch it you Fatso's... you're next

	26-01-2005 06:02									#44
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: but they will lose in court on this one.

No, they actually won't. Michigan, IIRC, is an at will state. As long as you do not fire someone for being a member of a protected class (which smokers are definetly not), you can fire people for anything.

	26-01-2005 06:04									#45
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Ming If this passes the "legal" test, it opens the door for all kinds of discrimination. Watch it you Fatso's... you're next

If it encourages people to lose weight, I can't say it's all that bad.

But perhaps there are better ways. IBM has a free company gym on-site that employees can use from 6am to 9pm 5 days a week, including classes (Yoga, kickboxing, etc).

	26-01-2005 06:12									#46
	Increase Your PM Length

Now if our country wasn't so backwards, this wouldn't even be an issue because there'd be a national healthcare system.

	26-01-2005 06:18									#47
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't think increase in healthcare costs for smokers is the real reason for this, because they can charge smokers more in premiums in the context of a bone fide welfare program. Frankly, I'm not sure how much their healthcare premiums will go down as a result of this.

	26-01-2005 06:28									#48
	Full PM-box? Change here!

It will be a net loss because of lawyer fees... While your humble legal knowledge may indicate it will pass muster (which I still doubt), it will be expensive for them to prove you are right

	26-01-2005 06:31									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: While your humble legal knowledge may indicate it will pass muster (which I still doubt)

Oh, it will, believe me. I'm 100% certain it will. And I'm not sure how expensive it will be for them. It depends if they think they can actually reduce their premiums... or if they are fanatics about this.

	26-01-2005 06:33									#50
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Oh, it will, believe me. I'm 100% certain it will.

I'll wait for the courts to actually decide that one... this one has Supreme Court written all over it... and either way, it will be very expensive for the company to defend, even if they win

	26-01-2005 07:00									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: Chief Financial Officer Gary Climes estimated that 18 to 20 of the company's 200 employers were smokers when the policy was announced in 2003. Of those, as many as 14 quit smoking before the policy went into effect. The company offered them help to kick the habit.

Since the employees have had more than a year to deal with this and the company has offered to help them, I have no sympathy for anyone who lost their job from this.

	26-01-2005 07:07									#52
	Got spare money?

quote: this one has Supreme Court written all over it.

Not a chance. They'll deny cert because it's obviously allowable. Frankly, if a lawyer brought a suit, if I was opposing council I'd file a Rule 11 sanction for frivilous lawsuit.

	26-01-2005 07:11									#53
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Again... you're welcome to your opinion... I'll wait to see what the courts say.

	26-01-2005 07:12									#54
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If it ever gets there. A lawyer has to take the case first.

	26-01-2005 07:14									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by ixnay Since the employees have had more than a year to deal with this and the company has offered to help them, I have no sympathy for anyone who lost their job from this.

And if the people were gay, fat, had high blood preasure, whatever... how silly would your comment sound

	26-01-2005 07:14									#56
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If it ever gets there. A lawyer has to take the case first.

They will be lining up to take it

	26-01-2005 07:47									#57
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ming And if the people were gay, fat, had high blood preasure, whatever... how silly would your comment sound

Would be just as relevant if they're not breaking any laws.

The private Christian university in the states openly refuses to hire homosexuals, for example. That's fine by me, it's a private organization in the states that allows that kind of thing.

Didn't the Boy Scouts win their case against excluding gays in their private organization already?

	26-01-2005 07:56									#58
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Frankly, I wouldn't have a problem with it if they were a clinic that specialized in stopping smoking or if the decision was being made for some type of performance reasons... but to pick on smoking because of "possible" higher payments on insurance claims, then they should be picking on fat people, gays, high blood preasure, or any other group where health problems "could" be higher. This is just BS. Nail all high risk groups or none... Over weight is a bigger health problem than smoking in the US

	26-01-2005 08:07									#59
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

This is absolutely unacceptable. My employer has no business knowing or caring about what I do in my spare time.

Fire and hire based on merit, not bullshit like smoking, gender, or race.

	26-01-2005 08:20									#60
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by St Leo This is absolutely unacceptable. My employer has no business knowing or caring about what I do in my spare time.

They do when they pay for your well-being.

I know I sure as hell hate knowing I'm paying tons of money to pay for the health care of morons who still smoke in Canada.

As far as I'm concerned, if you willingly make lifestyle choices knowing it massively increases your risks in health problems, you should pay more tax towards health care than others.