29-01-2005 00:54									#1
	Recapturing "that Civ feel" in CtP2 via modding? Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I do not yet own CtP2, but I intend to find a copy and start exploring it.

Right now I play a modded version of ToT after having experimented with Civ3 and been dissatisfied (largely with its multiplayer problems).

In reading reviews of CtP2 (here and elsewhere), one of the common comments is that it lacks that special something that makes Civ games so addictive.

I'm not sure exactly what this means, but I know Civ1 and Civ2 had it, and Civ3 (to me) does not. But obviously CtP2 is a highly different game.

My question is, can "that Civ feel" be brought to CtP2 with the right mods? Do any of you feel that you've accompished this?

--Mike
(man, it's been a long time since I posted at Apolyton)

	29-01-2005 03:24									#2
	Put an end to popups!

The biggest mistake youll make playing CtP2 is expecting it to be civ or expect to get some kind of magical feeling you got when first playing civ1. Its a different franchise.

With the unmodded I had few problems with the game, maybe I didnt like the future eras (just pointless copies of previous era with different names for stuff) and the AI being awful, which is why I started playing MP.

The mods had better AI but to me they were too different from the original or were too heavy in techs/builds/units, but with not enough balance or simple gameplay, none of them exactly fitted what I wanted, something like civ2, well balanced with lots of different routes to take, simple but difficult choices, but without all the insanely tedious micromanagement of civ2. I even got quite far into making a civ2 mod, but didnt finish the AI.

Maybe the heavy historical detail of the main mods was lost on me and thats why I didnt really get into them, but maybe youll find it different.

	31-01-2005 07:14									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

What I trully miss from Civ II is the Council, with movies of 5 real people arguing with oneanother about what I should do =P

This is, for me, something that synthetises the "civ feel" and cannot be acheived throught modding.

Also, Civ III feels way better talking about "civ feel".

On the other hand CTP2 customization makes it a formidable scenario builder. The best one for civs that has ever existed.

	01-02-2005 20:03									#4
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

CtP is not Civ and probably never will be (though as Maq said if you really wanted to you could get quite far modding it).

That being said, I like the 'CtP feel' at least as much, if not more so than the 'Civ feel'. Velociryx described this feel best.

	01-02-2005 20:18									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: CtP is not Civ and probably never will be

Everything I've read seems to support that notion.

quote: That being said, I like the 'CtP feel' at least as much, if not more so than the 'Civ feel'.

Interesting.
That, then, of course brings up the point of what exactly the "Civ feel" even is.

The link you provided is -- informative. "My god, it's full of moddability," to misquote Dave Bowman. It reinstills my desire to (somehow) acquire this game. None of my local vendors have it -- guess I'll have to go with one of the manual-less eBay copies or something.

	01-02-2005 21:05									#6
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm pretty sure I still have one spare copy lying around at home (and may be able to acquire more). It's completely new: still unopened, in the original packaging, in plastic and everything. I bought it (and a few other copies, but this is the last one I have left) specifically so I could help people who can't find their own copy.

The one downside is that it's a 'budget' version (of the 'Explosiv' series), so no manual or tech tree -- just a DVD case with CD. Manual is available on CD and both manual and tech tree are available on Apolyton in several file formats.

Text on casing is in Dutch, installer comes in 4 languages (IIRC English, Spanish, German, French), game itself I *think* is only in English but it may possibly be in other languages as well (but regardless, it would be easy to convert it to other languages with a little help from the people here, should you want to). Officially the installer doesn't work on WinXP (the game itself does), but I've had no problems with it. In the unlikely case it's needed, I can help with a manual install.

It cost me €4, so including shipping you can have it for €5 (unless you live in a location that costs much more than €1-2 to ship to -- but unless you live deep in the rainforests of Africa or something I don't think that will be an issue )

If you're interested, contact me by PM. Please note that I'm having Internet connection problems at the moment, so it may be a while before I can get back to you (that's also the reason why you should PM me rather than email or IM, I can't access the latter ones now, not working from my own PC).

	01-02-2005 21:13									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

The manual is next to useless, its more like a beginners guide to a civ game, though try and get a copy with the poster, itll help you getting used to the tech tree and all the stats on the back to glance at while you play.

Though Locutus' offer is very good too.

	01-02-2005 21:16									#8
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Thanks for the help, guys! As it happens, someone recently posted a "New In-Box" version of CTP2 on eBay. Wish they'd done that last week. Oh well, my search is over!

I suspect you'll be seeing much more of me in here, b/c the more I read, the more enthralled I get.

Has anybody hacked the 200 Sprite limit yet?

	01-02-2005 21:21									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

That's great news, Mike

Let us know what you think of the game once you get it

	01-02-2005 21:34									#10
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by MikeLynch Has anybody hacked the 200 Sprite limit yet?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...ighlight=sprite

The thread seems to have dropped off (probably from all the early sourcecode excitement, lots of new threads etc) but as you can see its a simple change, although its not the most efficient way. I'm not sure if it went any further than this discussion, I think not.

	01-02-2005 22:06									#11
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Yaaaaay!
I just knew, with absolute certainty, that 200 wouldn't be enough for me. Now I can truly begin letting my imagination run wild.

	02-02-2005 00:49									#12
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I remeber we upped it to 350 (or 500) and I think Martin had a problem with the compiled version (tto slow) and returned it to 255. Not sure if its been turned back up again though...

also Amazon says new copies too and there are links on the forums tto buy CtP2

	09-02-2005 05:59									#13
	Inflate your Upload Space

New Games of CTP2;

Note there are at least 2 sources for new games.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos...8203467-1603606

Amazon, several companies have new copies for very good prices. The postage is often more than the price of the game. Also Empireinteractive (A UK company) is still making the game under license.

Also, copies appear on Ebay regularly.

	12-02-2005 21:54									#14
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I am working on a Civ3 graphics mod i that gives the feel...



many units and city to go but now its coming along....

	14-02-2005 20:12									#15
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

That does look nice.

But I have to ask: can anything be done about that targeting reticle that indicates an active unit? I'm not too fond of it, as it seems to clash with the isometric layout in a way that ToT and Civ3 do not.

	14-02-2005 23:21									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by MikeLynch That does look nice. But I have to ask: can anything be done about that targeting reticle that indicates an active unit? I'm not too fond of it, as it seems to clash with the isometric layout in a way that ToT and Civ3 do not.

I'd like to change it to, but didn't see a TGA for it. Does anyone know where its at?

	15-02-2005 02:06									#17
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

"I'd like to change it to, but didn't see a TGA for it. Does anyone know where its at?"

Think it is a cursor in the cursor folder.

	15-02-2005 02:27									#18
	Increase Your PM Length

I think he means the flashing one in the zfs file, or is there one in the zfs file?

You can get the zfs reader and look at each picture from there though.

I think its pretty good though, reminds me of the target from an old Sega game called Virtua Cop, who knows maybe thats where they took it from.

	15-02-2005 18:38									#19
	Suffering from ads?

Pretty sure he means the tga images

UC002.tga and UC003.tga

in the cursors folder in the graphics folder.

	15-02-2005 18:51									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Thats the move icon when you path a unit. He means the green (or yellow when the unit has no movement points left) one when a unit is just selected, shown in E's screenshot.

	16-02-2005 02:06									#21
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thats Great!

E you have out done yourself this time. Perfect blend of colors- everything seems natural .

	16-02-2005 10:23									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I didn't find that cursor in the ZFS file...any other ideas?

	17-02-2005 00:19									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

See UnitActor::DrawSelectionBrackets. It is using 4 MAPICON_BRACKET# constants from TileSet.h. So, I assume there are 4 parts somewhere in the .til files in ctp2_data\default\graphics\tiles.

	18-02-2005 19:37									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Well it is right that there are four parts somewhere, but you don't find them in the *.til file or in the ..\ctp2_data\default\graphics\tiles\ folder you find these images in the ..\ctp2_data\default\graphics\graphics\ folder. These images are called UPC008.TGA, UPC009.TGA, UPC010.TGA and UPC011.TGA.

-Martin

	18-02-2005 22:51									#25
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Martin Gühmann Well it is right that there are four parts somewhere, but you don't find them in the *.til file or in the ..\ctp2_data\default\graphics\tiles\ folder you find these images in the ..\ctp2_data\default\graphics\graphicspictures\ folder. These images are called UPC008.TGA, UPC009.TGA, UPC010.TGA and UPC011.TGA. -Martin

	23-02-2005 23:17									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Found it.

So I guess the program automatically turns the reticle yellow -- laaaame. Luckily I don't mind the existing color scheme ... but making the graphic isometric in orientation will be tricky thanks to their having split it into four images, to say nothing of the fact that I'd wager the unit can't overlap the "back" edge of an isometric reticle


Well, I can make it less obtrusive, anyway.

In related "that Civ feel" news, I'm pleased to announce I'm working out the basics of CtP2 modding, very slowly. Civ2 style units look great even on these slightly larger tiles (better than they did when I attempted a similar mod of Civ3!). Also, the Sioux will be making a comeback.

	23-02-2005 23:45									#27
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

MikeLynch,

nice on the modding! I tried to edit the cursor thingy with just a plain circle (I tried to get the civ3 circle working) had problems of it showing it up. Let us know if you find a solution...