04-02-2005 04:15									#1
	64 Senators Support Torture Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Every single Republican voted (excepting one who didn't vote) to confirm Gonzales as attorney general. Including McCain, Snowe, Chafee, Hagel, etc.

Five Dems also voted to confirm him: Lieberman (amazing!), (Bill) Nelson, (Ben) Nelson, Landrieu, Pryor, and Salazar. Three of them chickened out, refusing to make a decision: Baucus, Conrad, and Inyoue (genuinely suprised).

Jeffords voted against his confirmation.

So, Gonzales was confirmed 60-36 (I honestly expected it to be closer to 58-42).

Four more years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/03/p...artner=homepage

	04-02-2005 04:19									#3
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Of course Americans don't torture people, they liberate them from absence of pain.

	04-02-2005 04:20									#4
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you torture us with your slippery slope logic.

	04-02-2005 04:21									#5
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I have little respect for Liberman anymore- he doesn't even have the excuse the Sens. from Red States have.

	04-02-2005 04:22									#6
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I was gonna comment on the stupidity of the thread title (and all it implied), but why bother.

	04-02-2005 04:23									#7
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Liebermann is Jewish, he wants to torture those Muslim bastards .

	04-02-2005 04:32									#8
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quote: Five Dems also voted to confirm him: Lieberman (amazing!), (Bill) Nelson, (Ben) Nelson, Landrieu, Pryor, and Salazar. Three of them chickened out, refusing to make a decision: Baucus, Conrad, and Inyoue (genuinely suprised).

Arkansas Pryor? Tell me there's another Pryor in the Senate. Please.

	04-02-2005 04:35									#9
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quote: I was gonna comment on the stupidity of the thread title (and all it implied), but why bother.

Was going to comment on the stupidity of your post, but, ... yeah, I think I'll do it.

Gonzales has said that the President is not limited by the Constitution, the Federal Anti-Torture Statute, the Anti-Torture Conventions, and the Geneva Conventions. Voting to confirm him is tantamount to condoning torture.

	04-02-2005 04:35									#10
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Lieberman is a republican, why doesn't he just admit it and get it over with?!

	04-02-2005 04:37									#11
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Cause if he did, he would not survive the challange back home- Conn. is a solid Blue state.

	04-02-2005 04:38									#12
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quote: Arkansas Pryor? Tell me there's another Pryor in the Senate. Please.

Unfortunately so. OTOH, Lincoln voted against him. So at least one of your Senators isn't a total douchebag (in contrast to my state).

	04-02-2005 04:40									#13
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Both the Democrats and the Republicans need stronger parties, so they can kick people like Leiberman out.

	04-02-2005 04:41									#14
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Both the Democrats and the Republicans need stronger parties, so they can kick people like Leiberman out.

It's just like a commie to support purges. Though I would be amused to see the Dems purge the Blue Dog Democrats.

	04-02-2005 04:42									#15
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I'd expect a strong primary challenge to Lieberman in '06.

	04-02-2005 04:45									#16
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I doubt it would be sucessful though. This streak is nothing new in the man's record. The voters knew all this when they sent him to Washington.

	04-02-2005 04:46									#17
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Very sad day for this country.

	04-02-2005 04:50									#18
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quote: I doubt it would be sucessful though. This streak is nothing new in the man's record. The voters knew all this when they sent him to Washington.

The difference is that the Dems suddenly have a spine, in contrast to six years ago.

	04-02-2005 04:53									#19
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo The difference is that the Dems suddenly have a spine, in contrast to six years ago.

Where is this spine you speak of the Dems possesing? I see Rice and Gonzales confirmed in short order with no fillibuster threats. So please enlighten me on where it is?

	04-02-2005 04:55									#20
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DinoDoc's got you there, Ramo.

	04-02-2005 04:57									#21
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara DinoDoc's got you there, Ramo.

	04-02-2005 05:00									#22
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I'm referring more to the Democratic grass roots (i.e., the folks who'd be motivated to kick Lieberman out) than the establishment, though Reid has been suprisingly non-gelatinous in some respects (being able to get 36 votes in opposition to Gonzales).

Incidentally, there was a filibuster threat on Rice. That's why her hearing was extended for a week.

	04-02-2005 05:04									#23
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I see no evidence of spine in them either. Unless of course we count the impotent (and amusing) rage found over at the Democratic Underground forums.

	04-02-2005 05:06									#24
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Curses! DU should be autocensored!

	04-02-2005 05:09									#25
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quote: I see no evidence of spine in them either. Unless of course we count the impotent (and amusing) rage found over at the Democratic Underground forums.

Dean being almost unanimously supported for DNC chair (Dean already has 48% of the vote, needs only 2% more to win, and 47% is uncommitted thus far), despite opposition from the establishment, for instance.

	04-02-2005 06:29									#26
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Nope. 64 Senators support a freedom loving adminstration, and this endorsement does not indicate they support torture, as there is NO EVIDENCE that Gonzalez ever supported it. This is purely a troll thread, and its title is misleading, let alone false.

	04-02-2005 06:36									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Nope. 64 Senators support a freedom loving adminstration, and this endorsement does not indicate they support torture, as there is NO EVIDENCE that Gonzalez ever supported it. This is purely a troll thread, and its title is misleading, let alone false.

Except saying that it was OK for the administration to torture people...

	04-02-2005 06:37									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boshko Except saying that it was OK for the administration to torture people...

Again the adminstration didn't torture people, there were sproadic cases of soldiers torturing people (happened with British trops too)... but it is not right to say the adminstration was responsible as there is no evidence. Then again proving this thread is purely a strawman attack.

So honestly, you're trolling worse then I do.

	04-02-2005 06:40									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Again the adminstration didn't torture people, there were sproadic cases of soldiers torturing people (happened with British trops too)... but it is not right to say the adminstration was responsible as there is no evidence. Then again proving this thread is purely a strawman attack. So honestly, you're trolling worse then I do.

That's not what I said. He said that if the administration tortured people that would be 100% legal.

	04-02-2005 06:42									#30
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Gonzales said that it was ok to do what the administation was doing to prisoners as long as the prisoners didn't die and their organs didn't fail. That's disgusting, and it's toture.