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Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
time: 23:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Every single Republican voted (excepting one who didn't vote) to confirm Gonzales as attorney general. Including McCain, Snowe, Chafee, Hagel, etc.
Five Dems also voted to confirm him: Lieberman (amazing!), (Bill) Nelson, (Ben) Nelson, Landrieu, Pryor, and Salazar. Three of them chickened out, refusing to make a decision: Baucus, Conrad, and Inyoue (genuinely suprised).
Jeffords voted against his confirmation.
So, Gonzales was confirmed 60-36 (I honestly expected it to be closer to 58-42).
Four more years. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/03/p...artner=homepage |
bleh they got guy with the alledged la raza ties in 
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mrmitchell
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quote:
Unfortunately so. OTOH, Lincoln voted against him. So at least one of your Senators isn't a total douchebag (in contrast to my state). |
Pryor isn't a douchebag. Hopefully in this case he's just misguided, or he has a really good reason.
OTOH I got to shake hands with Senator Lincoln in DC. She's a very nice, energetic lady and I won't be surprised when she goes farther than the Senate.
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Thucydides
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Screw you guys, I'm going home.
Jan 1970
time: 05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
The US invasion isn't illegal, the US was in a binding agreement to enter Iraq because Iraq violated resolution after resolution. I believe those who committed torture onto detainees have been prosecuted and others are being investigated. Unlike other countries, the US actually investigates these allegations. Your reasoning is disgusting. You should kick yourself in the head for it.
molly, again I want to see evidence for accusations. Gonzalez has repeatably said he is against outright torture. |
You mean the US was in binding agreement to enter Iraq because they broke UN resolutions. Yet somehow, it's the UN Secretary General that has called the US invasion of Iraq illegal. You can counter by saying the UN is a useless organization or such, but then you lose the ability to define illegal combatants or terrorists for that matter. In such a way all prisoners of War should therefore be under Geneva Conventions. Yet Gonzalzes has defended the position in some 2002 memos that prisoners in Gutamano Bay and those captured in Afghanistan and Iraq don't have the protection of Geneva Convention because of their status as illegal combatants, which includes protection against being tortured.
So while he did stand up in front of Congress and denied that he condoned torture, he did make certainly make it easier for a whole new class of prisoners to be tortured. Thus while he may not have been directly responsible for incidents of torture occuring, he certainly has his part to play by getting rid of safeguards in our system designed to prevent incidents like Abu Grab and Gutanamo Bay from occuring.
Ted Striker already provided the Memo, here's a link for the UN declaring the invasion of Iraq illegal-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/mi...ast/3661134.stm
Last edited by Thucydides on 05-02-2005 at 01:15
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:26
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Sorry no. When I posted the above message, I meant it but it's only one thing, a drop in the sea. It is VERY unfortunate, and unfortuantely it will endanger US lives everywhere in the world and I guess they are now open to torture as well. It's not bickering, it's a fact. I can't believe this was so popular vote. Besides, I HATE party politics. No matter who does it. SO once again a party shows strength by being disciplined with one big vote, and all those ****ers who were kind of 'well I might say no I'm not sure if this is such a great idea, plus I'm christian' you know, all those ****ers voted yes, who could have gone both ways, because they were loyal to their party in a matter such as this. This is not rep. phenomenon, this is everywhere so I'm nto saying you bad you good.. I just hate this kind of politics in IMPORTANT matters.
You must save yourselves. You're still in a good place, but these people who come up with these, not a party but these who plan these.. must be carefully watched, a person who actually coems with a 'let's OK torture' you know is ****ed up in the head, seriously.
And spare the 'one torture could save the world' crap. Besides I know torturing happens, it must sometimes. The difference is, we don't have a ****ing rule saying here it's totally cool.
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molly bloom
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Lundenwic
Oct 2001
time: 15:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
molly, again I want to see evidence for accusations. Gonzalez has repeatably said he is against outright torture.
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" WASHINGTON (AP) - Attorney General nominee Alberto Gonzales' confirmation hearing this week may become more contentious because the White House has refused to provide copies of his memos on the questioning of terror suspects ."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/...10274%2C00.html
As Dinah Washington sang, 'What a difference a day makes'........
"He had argued in his memo that the war on terrorism ``renders obsolete Geneva's strict limitations on questioning of enemy prisoners and renders quaint some of its provisions.''
Gonzales, as President Bush's White House counsel, was at the center of decisions about ``the legality of detention and interrogation methods that have been seen as tantamount to torture,'' said Sen. Patrick Leahy, D-Vt.
Added Sen. Edward M. Kennedy, D-Mass.: The ``legal positions that you have supported have been used by the administration, the military and the CIA to justify torture and Geneva Convention violations by military and civilian personnel.''
Gonzales, wearing an American flag pin in his lapel, sat alone at the witness table, family members seated behind him in the crowded hearing room. Senators addressed him respectfully as ``Judge'' - Gonzales is a former Texas Supreme Court justice - but pressed him repeatedly on administration policies.
He refused to back away from his legal opinion to Bush that terrorists don't deserve Geneva Convention treatment if captured by Americans overseas.
`"My judgment was ... that it would not apply to al-Qaida - they weren't a signatory to the convention,'' he said.
He denied that any of the memos he wrote or reviewed in the White House had anything to do with the overseas abuses.
`"Would you not concede that your decision and the decision of the president to call into question the definition of torture, the need to comply with the Geneva Convention at least opened up a permissive environment of conduct?'' asked Richard Durbin of Illinois, the Senate's no. 2 Democrat.
Saying he was sickened and outraged by photos of Abu Ghraib abuses, Gonzales described the U.S. troops in them as `"..people who were morally bankrupt having fun.'' Other abuses of foreign detainees probably were caused because `"there wasn't adequate training, there wasn't adequate supervision.''
`"I respectfully disagree that there was some kind of permissive environment,'' he said.
Gonzales' response to some questions Thursday seemed to contradict his description of the Geneva Convention in his January 2002 memo.
`"I consider the Geneva Convention neither obsolete or quaint,'' he said at the hearing, promising to ensure U.S. compliance ``with all of its legal obligations in fighting the war on terror.''
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uslatest/...16261%2C00.html
'Outright' torture?
So what is that, Torture Lite, available at participating military bases and branches of Wal-Mart?
With sleep deprivation, physical abuse and sexual humiliation you get 300 reward points and a trip to Disneyworld thrown in?
Don't make excuses for reptile Republicans just because they're Republicans. His thinking is odious- officers of the court aren't meant to connive at the torture of suspects and the abrogation of people's human rights- even south of the Mason-Dixon Line.
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04-02-2005 06:57
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