04-02-2005 23:08									#61
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn So go play a video game. Warfare is a professional job, not a ****ing jack off session.

its good to enjoy your job.

	04-02-2005 23:11									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy So, if it's OK to shoot people who slap women because they don't wear a veil... ... is it OK to shoot people who slap women because they DO wear a veil?

Hmm. Still no answer.

	04-02-2005 23:12									#63
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quote: I understand that. But my question is - do we want people who get a rise out of inflicting misery (the aim of a brawl)

The aim of a brawl is to win. Inflicting misery is incidental.

	04-02-2005 23:18									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Cruddy Hmm. Still no answer.

Its ok to shoot people who are bearing arms against you(see laws of war). Its ok to FEEL GOOD about it cause they slap their women. Its NOT ok to shoot people just cause they slap their women, whether it feels good or not, and the General did not say that it was.

	04-02-2005 23:25									#65
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quote: Its ok to FEEL GOOD about it cause they slap their women.

Unless you are shooting at the guy because he is doing the battery at that moment and you want him to stop, I don't think that is ok to shoot at someone because they have slapped their women (you don't even know if that individual soldier has done so either).

	04-02-2005 23:43									#66
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Just a lot of PC bullshit. Guess what, some soldiers enjoy the rush of combat. I guess we should all get in our ergomobile and throw flowers at our enemies while reading ****ing sensitivity pamphlets.

Gen Mattis. We need more like you.

	04-02-2005 23:45									#67
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc The fact the Marine follows the rules of war. Toss me another softball question.

rules of war.

rules of war are just something designed to keep the rich countries in power and oppress poor countries who do not have the capability of supporting a conventional army.

	04-02-2005 23:47									#68
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Diss

Rules of war are for people who like to kill.

	04-02-2005 23:57									#69
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark its good to enjoy your job.

It's good to have a job that you enjoy. But when killing is what you enjoy... well, it's unfortunate that you can get a job that supports that passion.

	05-02-2005 00:05									#70
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isn't it good we have a constructive way for people to enjoy their killings such as military and police forces?

If we didnt they would be committing crimes and then take up our jail space.

	05-02-2005 00:14									#71
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Its ok to FEEL GOOD about it cause they slap their women. Unless you are shooting at the guy because he is doing the battery at that moment and you want him to stop, I don't think that is ok to shoot at someone because they have slapped their women (you don't even know if that individual soldier has done so either).

yeah, which is why i said "Its NOT ok to shoot people just cause they slap their women, whether it feels good or not, and the General did not say that it was."

	05-02-2005 00:49									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident rules of war. rules of war are just something designed to keep the rich countries in power and oppress poor countries who do not have the capability of supporting a conventional army.

Poorly thought out trolls bounce off me.

	05-02-2005 01:06									#73
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quote: Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn Yes, taking enjoyment from the death of other humans is a sign of serious imbalances in one's world perspective. What we have here (on poly and the Marines) are clearly people who have thoroughly dehumanized the people they're fighting against. And thats sad, no wonder the war has been going so poorly What separates a Marine who likes to kill from a terrorist?

in history some of the worst bloodshed and attrocities have been commited on people by people they respected

see native american interwarfare for the most recent example

Jon Miller

	05-02-2005 01:07									#74
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quote: yeah, which is why i said "Its NOT ok to shoot people just cause they slap their women, whether it feels good or not, and the General did not say that it was."

And it's NOT ok to feel good about shooting people just cause they slap their women either.

Frankly, it's only a hop, skip, and jump from saying it feels good to shoot people for it, and saying it's ok to shoot people for it.

	05-02-2005 01:16									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: yeah, which is why i said "Its NOT ok to shoot people just cause they slap their women, whether it feels good or not, and the General did not say that it was." And it's NOT ok to feel good about shooting people just cause they slap their women either. Frankly, it's only a hop, skip, and jump from saying it feels good to shoot people for it, and saying it's ok to shoot people for it.

Well we disagree on that slippery slope, and I dont think theres any real empirical test for it. This guy didnt go shooting people who he didnt have the legal right to under the laws of war. We will never know if anyone else feels this way, now that this guys been "slapped" down.

	05-02-2005 01:19									#76
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I guess we cant honor Bull Halsey or Patton, either.

	05-02-2005 01:33									#77
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@ the apologists for this guy. Come on, he enjoys killing people. That's what his comment was conveying. Arguing over the semantics of "shoot" is just naive. He likes to kill. I've met several military types who feel the same way. It's a power trip for them when they can snuff out a life. We need look no further than Abu Ghraib as evidence that a segment of military personel certainly do get a kick out of causing misery and death to their opponents.

The article I read included a wonderfully lame "excuse" from a Marines spokesperson saying that Mattis was "trying to convey the true horrors of war." Yeah, sure! No, he was trying to convey that he got a kick out of shooting people. He was pretty clear. So don't feed us lies to try and get around it.

	05-02-2005 01:44									#78
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov :. We need look no further than Abu Ghraib as evidence that a segment of military personel certainly do get a kick out of causing misery and death to their opponents.

None of the perps whp commited abuse at abu graib were combat soldiers, BTW. The attempt to connect the two just wont stand.

Look, I dont want to be like this guy. But I dont see that the comment is such a big deal. And quite frankly, never having been in that position, of actually killing someone, I dont really know how I would react, and I would suggest you dont either. Ever read "Unto this Hour" by Tom Wicker? Lots of people react differently in the gut to combat, and its not necessarily a moral differentiator, I dont think. Just as I wont judge someone who runs away in combat, I wont judge those who get there jollies from it.

	05-02-2005 02:25									#79
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I very much doubt that this guy personally fired a weapon in combat since Vietnam, so he's probably talking about the guys he ordered to do so.

When I think about it, even the Swedish military recruit personnel to some branches based on personality. The air force classify candidates into "Lion", "Chicken" and "St. Bernard". You would believe that Lions are the best fighter jocks, but research has shown that close to 100% of the training deaths involved Lions - a real waste of life and tax money. What they really want for that job are St Bernards, who stay calm during the most extreme situations that may occur.

But our equivalent of the Marines gets the most aggressive types. One of my buddies applied for the Paratroopers. He easily passed the physical and intelligence tests, but then the psychologist provoked him into loosing his temper, which made him fail. The officers said he was too aggressive, but that he could apply for the Coastal Rangers (our marines) instead, if he still wanted to join a special forces unit.

He went to the Coastal Rangers School to make the tests, but when he saw how brain-washed these guys were, he changed his mind. He was finally assigned as an officer in the Mechanised Infantry .

	05-02-2005 02:28									#80
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and isn't what this general saying the same thing that we get out of games such as civ2, civ3, and smac?

	05-02-2005 02:30									#81
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident and isn't what this general saying the same thing that we get out of games such as civ2, civ3, and smac?

As I said in the OP, he should stick to paintball

	05-02-2005 03:11									#82
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It was a fundamentally stupid thing to say- I don;t give a **** if he believes it, nor that he is some gun-ho marine. When you are at symposium, you watch what you say- each time has its appropriate way of speaking, and this was not it.

Someone should teach this general how to either keep his trap shut (if he likes shooting, stick to it, not talking) or know how to convey his notions better.

	05-02-2005 04:41									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Chemical Ollie I wouldn't call them ignorant and stupid, I believe the IQ needed to qualify is above average. Brain washed would be a more appropriate term.

I didn't call them ignorant and stupid. I pointed out that they actually - from my point of view at least - seemed to want to be portrayed as such.

	05-02-2005 07:29									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin The Marine Corps of the united states is the only modern military unit I know about that seems to take pride in building up a reputation about themselves as a bunch of ignorant and stupid brutes.

You haven't met any Australian soldiers then.

I was chatting with a naval officer recently, a lt. commander on a frigate, about shore visits. He said his men had 2 priorities on shore leave - sex and brawling - and then he added, thank God they still have some mongrel in them, that they like to fight, you need troops like that. I had to agree.

This general was foolish to speak publicly like that but most fighting troops are in it to kill and blow things up. Most successful generals are blood thirsty, cold blooded characters.

	05-02-2005 07:38									#85
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i change my mind on this. im glad he likes his job, and enjoys doing his job which is killing people. but i do not like how we send him to another nation, to kill, while we claim to be peace loving

	05-02-2005 08:00									#86
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse You haven't met any Australian soldiers then. I was chatting with a naval officer recently, a lt. commander on a frigate, about shore visits. He said his men had 2 priorities on shore leave - sex and brawling - and then he added, thank God they still have some mongrel in them, that they like to fight, you need troops like that. I had to agree. This general was foolish to speak publicly like that but most fighting troops are in it to kill and blow things up. Most successful generals are blood thirsty, cold blooded characters.

Yeah. The best soldiers I knew were the biggest **** disturbers in garrison.

	05-02-2005 08:01									#87
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quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark its good to enjoy your job.

I never thought you would defend a psyhcotic murderer.

	05-02-2005 08:02									#88
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It never stopped you.

	05-02-2005 08:02									#89
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quote: Originally posted by DanS The man likes his job. His job is to take part in violent competition on the orders of the president.

The same can be said about the people who caused 9/11. So instead of denouncing them, you should praise them for liking their jobs.

	05-02-2005 08:03									#90
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc It never stopped you.

Weak.