04-02-2005 16:45									#1
	Historically Accurate 2nd World War Scenario Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Hello people,

I´´d like to anounce that I am building a very historicaly accurate 2nd world war scenario.

I´m not sure how to procede into publishing my material in this site, so any suggestions would be appreciated.

After some search I found in the internet even the real number of soldiers fighting for each side on the begining of the war, and my idea is to build a scenario based on that.

I will use the following table to do the real --> game unit transformation:

1 infantry = 100.000 soldiers
1 Tank = 1.000 light, medium and heavy tanks
1 fighter = 200 Fighters (in fighting conditions)
1 bomber = 200 Bombers
1 Artillery unit = 10.000 artillery pieces
1 Submarine = 50 subs
1 Battleship = 7 battleships and heavy cruisers
1 boat = 50 torpedo boats
1 Destroyer = 40 small fighting ships (torpedo launchers, destroyers, light cruisers, etc)

In the attached file is the map I used. It´s a atlantic map that look really real, but the world there is compressed along the y axis =( and I took a long time to realise that this is a problem (the y axis is half in size to the X axis, comparing to what it should be to look real).

I just need to set the city improvements, build the Russian cities (and they have lot´s =/ ) and it will be ready in about 2 weeks.

Felipe

Attachment: atlantico norte.jpg
This has been downloaded 132 time(s).

	06-02-2005 06:50									#2
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thanx for the work, love seeing people working on senarios

check out the apolyton directory to publish

	08-02-2005 00:42									#3
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Almost ready for a release ... just need to find how to transform the save file into a scenario and add the Russian Troops.

Germany will start with Austria, Hungary, Romania, Tchecoslovaquia and Norway (because the AI won´t conquer it after taking Poland) and with troops ready to atack Poland from 3 different routes.

The URRS starts ready to take the rest of the East Europe.

Italy and Finland are merged together and represent some Axis Allys.

No USA yet .... in the next release they will be available, but as a part of the English civilization.

It will be possible to play with every civilization.

Other civs are: France, Independents (Poland, Greece, Holand, etc), Turkey and Iberia.

	08-02-2005 01:23									#4
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I think you can change the save game into a scenario by choosing "save as scenario" or similar in cheat mode.

After you finish the map, it would be intresting to have some SLIC code in as well.

	08-02-2005 04:19									#5
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

How you going to deal with the north Atlantic convoy routes this i got to see.


I would .love to do operation drum beat 2


If you don’t mind experiment with slic you could make it that by 42 the Americans switch to being part of the allied area and become controlled by England French allies.

	08-02-2005 20:35									#6
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Yes, I truly want to make a very good game as I improve it.

The first version will be pretty plain, and almost done. Does anyone know what exactly to put in the Cheat Editor to Get a scenario where the user can select Any civilization???

When I use the create scenario button it removes all my cities and units and puts settlers in random places for every civ =(

Now, going back to the game, I have some ideas, like after Paris is captured, France surenders and gives part of it to the Germans, like it really ocurred, and a small governament is built in Vichy =P

any ideas apreciated,

Felipe

	09-02-2005 01:00									#7
	Full PM-box? Change here!

You any good at 3d modeling otherwise you may have a problem with some things like the v1 – v2


But for ideas I am your man I know a lot about ww2 .

Like liberty ships should have a chance of breaking up mid trip.

	09-02-2005 02:47									#8
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Are you modifying the attack/defense/movement values of units for different countries?

Are you creating unique units for each country?

I wouldn't worry too much about perfectly replicating very specific actions/events in the historical record of WW2. It will be tough enough to balance the gameplay issues to make it competitive within the historical context. That's why I mentioned the adjustment of A/D/M factors.

	09-02-2005 05:43									#9
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quote: How you going to deal with the north Atlantic convoy routes this i got to see.

Well ..... I just planned to make the same thing Civ 2 programmers did ..... put lots of units and transports in the USA hehehehehe, but as you seam very interrested in this aspect maybe we can come up with something better.

Putting lots of german subs in the atlantic would be horrible unrealistic, because England, france and even Italy had more subs then the Germans in 1939 I do have the real numbers (but not here) and will stick to them.

quote: You any good at 3d modeling otherwise you may have a problem with some things like the v1 – v2

Unfortunatly I´ve never done anything like that, but I know how to model engeneering stuff in Microstation.

Anyway, I don´t have this kind of time available, so I will just look for sprites in mods and talk to the owners =)

quote: Originally posted by Shogun Gunner Are you modifying the attack/defense/movement values of units for different countries?

No, I think that it wouldn´t be very realistic. Given the tecnology, anyone can build anything The only reason to do that would to be reasonable to the obsolete material that Russia, Italy and Poland had, but I can do it by giving them a percentage of obsolete units =P

I am instead modifying units for everyone.

Here are some modifications:

- Naval and Air units cannot attack cities or units, they need to bombard them, other wise England may clean up the german coast and easely take Hamburg and Kiel.

- Land units cannot attack air units, but some can bombard them.

-

quote: Are you creating unique units for each country?

Again, no .... but I´d like to create new units for everyone, something that would even be something like a personal MOD, because the units can be used in random map games also.

Units I´d like to create:

- Anti aircraft Artillery - Can bombard air units, active defense and a big bonus vs Tanks (Yes, The German 88mm anti aircraft gun could wreck any tank during the entire war)

- Light tanks - For the begining of the war

- Guerrila - And have it apear around cities. Few guerrilas usualy, but lot´s after you research Guerrila Warfare, so France will initialy have few guerrila, but other targets later on may get harder. That´s good for the game as a hole.

- Alpine Troops

- Riflemen - Something between the Musketeer and the Machinegun, for the countries with obsolete equipment.

quote: I wouldn't worry too much about perfectly replicating very specific actions/events in the historical record of WW2. It will be tough enough to balance the gameplay issues to make it competitive within the historical context. That's why I mentioned the adjustment of A/D/M factors.

When I said I want to build a historicaly accurate WW2 scenario, I meant that the countries should begin the scenario very close to what they were in 1939. What happens beyond that it yours and the AI´s problem. I´ll add just some events if somethings are acomplished (like, capturing Paris).

If someone wants a Scenario where hitler is ready to invade URRS ... just modify the scenario a bit.

----------

something else: Using this Playtest from the source code project: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...959#post3316959

I was able to correctly create the scenario .... maybe the original "create scenario" button was buggy.

	09-02-2005 08:03									#10
	Increase Your PM Length

That all sounds very interesting. I'm relatively new to CtP2, so I'm still learning the game and I know next to nothing about what modifications can made to the base rules.

I'll be very interested in your scenario when it's ready.

	09-02-2005 22:57									#11
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two words for you shogun gunner

source code

	11-02-2005 08:56									#12
	Put an end to popups!

In this point I´m thinking that althought I have already built all cities and most units and city improvements, I could still change to the small and better scaled map bellow ..... difficult choice.

The main problem is that I would have to rebuild the map with my atlas the same way I did with the Atlantic one, and this one does not contain America .... so I´ll probably stick with the current one.

Also, it´s necessary to place all buildings in cities manually for all cities!!!!! Some one forgot Civ2 button: Copy city improvements from other city. I´ll try to add this in the source code project.

I´ll do some work this weekend and will probably have a prerelease the latest in monday.

Attachment: savant_europe.jpg
This has been downloaded 81 time(s).

Last edited by sekel on 11-02-2005 at 09:02

	11-02-2005 09:32									#13
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If Martin the Dane's SpriteEditor was working I would help converting civ3 WW2 stuff (especially all the modder stuff) but if I do that they won't be animated as the editor is now.

	11-02-2005 10:13									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by The Big Mc two words for you shogun gunner source code

Yes, Maq has educated me about this. I'm just seeing the game for the first time...so I decided to play the vanilla version for awhile so I can understand the differences/changes the source code project brings.

	11-02-2005 21:41									#15
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we need all the coders, 3d artists we can find.

	11-02-2005 21:58									#16
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Two swings and two misses....neither are in my area of expertise or abilities. Sorry.

I'm becoming an advocate for the Source Code team's work if that's worth anything ....

	12-02-2005 21:57									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Bad news ..... in the preeliminary tests (didn´t even test with the code for setting regard and custom turn length) the computer takes a eternity to pass the turn =(

I´m putting the save game, so that other people can take a look and see if everyone will have this problem.

In the moment i´ll try to build a smaller and better scaled atlantic map

Attachment: atlantic.zip
This has been downloaded 1 time(s).

	13-02-2005 05:28									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

stop is this on the play test or vanilla game.


There is a problem with the play test taking a long time on some ais

	15-02-2005 21:19									#19
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This does sound interesting.

I was working on a WW2 scenario myself some time ago but lost interest in it, you can dl it from here if you want to take a look. I used Omni's world map, got all the cities placed and (i think) the techs/units/buildings done and was working on some slic before i stopped.

Youll need winrar or some other program to unrar with to open it.

By the way if you have problems downloading the ww2 one or the ctp1 terrain mod (or any file over 250k from that server), its possibly because you have Norton.

	19-02-2005 16:06									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Well, that was with the PLaytest. I recently found that in the original it plays much faster, but not as fast as I would like.

Here is a file with the info I based at for building the scenario (auto-translated, so there will probably be gramatical errors)

Attachment: world war two scenario.rtf
This has been downloaded 6 time(s).

	18-03-2005 01:10									#21
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May I suggest using the CTP2 marine sprite and changing the name and stats to be some kind of SS soldier, seeing as many units in the Waffen-SS recieved camouflage fatigues and shmocks even in the early stages. Also some use should perhaps be made of the brown camo sprite used in the Activision WW2 Scenario, as that unit looked like some Gross-Deutschland regiment of the regular army. If one infantry unit is equivalent to 100,000 soldiers then the germans will have approximately thirty units available to invade Russia... Hmmm. I always thought imagining each unit as representing the investment of the resources in time and labour of just 1000 people was best, regardless of age or other unimportant tripe. Also making every pop-point represent one-thousand and having EVERY unit take one pop point would be good, since cities would have populations of hundreds (this is how I modded the game, leading to some fairly incredible numbers of units in the later ages.)

For your scenario, the map being the size it is, perhaps keeping things as you have is best. I just wished to make some brief observations and offer a few pennies.
Tally ho!

	18-03-2005 04:57									#22
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Ceph May I suggest using the CTP2 marine sprite and changing the name and stats to be some kind of SS soldier, seeing as many units in the Waffen-SS recieved camouflage fatigues and shmocks even in the early stages.

I don´t know what you mean with "camouflage fatigues". I know what each word means separately, but I just don´t see what they could mean together.

quote: Also some use should perhaps be made of the brown camo sprite used in the Activision WW2 Scenario, as that unit looked like some Gross-Deutschland regiment of the regular army.

Sounds a good idea

quote: If one infantry unit is equivalent to 100,000 soldiers then the germans will have approximately thirty units available to invade Russia... Hmmm. I always thought imagining each unit as representing the investment of the resources in time and labour of just 1000 people was best,

So you suggest I should give the germans 3.000 units to invade Russia????? Sorry, but this is absurd, slow for the computer and boring for the player.

Also, take notice that each *infantry* unit represents 100.000 soldiers, so Tank, artillery, air and naval represent a smaller amount of people, and are not counted towards the army size in people. So the Germans would have about 30 infantry units to invade Russia, but also a lot of artillery and some air unit and tanks.

[/QUOTE] regardless of age or other unimportant tripe. Also making every pop-point represent one-thousand and having EVERY unit take one pop point would be good, since cities would have populations of hundreds (this is how I modded the game, leading to some fairly incredible numbers of units in the later ages.)[/QUOTE]

Each pop "represents" 1.000 people, because that´s how Activision built the game and I didn´t change that due to lack of time. Actually, in my scenario, each pop should be 100.000, to be more consistent (the idea of each unit taking 1 pop is good, and I would make that every *infantry* unit takes 1 pop).

Each pop just cannot represent 1.000 people if you are trying to be consistent with the real world. Beijing had a population of about 2 million people in the year 500 after Christ!!! Should they have a size of 2.000???

[/QUOTE] For your scenario, the map being the size it is, perhaps keeping things as you have is best. I just wished to make some brief observations and offer a few pennies. Tally ho! [/QUOTE]

Always good to have feed back :^)