10-02-2005 23:25									#31
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara We didn't get released early, it was after lunch, but before the end of the school day, so we had to return. IIRC, a school bus drove us to our individual churches.

IN NY they released them at 2 PM, and they didnt come back till the next day.

	10-02-2005 23:27									#32
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Sd Buck said, Sweden has mandatory religion classes, which are at least theoretically conducted from a neutral comparative religion standpoint. Most of my teachers in it were Christians, but they on the whole did a good job of giving all covered religions a fair treatment (the chief exception being an atheist teacher who for some reason was very hostile to Ultraorthodox Judaicism). The textbooks were aggressively benevolent towards all religions.

	10-02-2005 23:31									#33
	Put an end to popups!

Good old R.E...

certainly was compulsory when I was in England.

	10-02-2005 23:36									#34
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

In Belgium, it was mandatory, but you had the choice between:
- catholic
- protestant
- jew
- islam
- orthodox (*)
- NoneOfTheAbove. Its was called 'morale'.

(*) Only in cities with an Orthodox community.

	10-02-2005 23:39									#35
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, we had to say prayers in lower school and middle school (Christian) which I always objected to, being the only Jew in the school I was trying to assert myself before I became an atheist.

My parents forced me into Jewish education, had to go to Sunday school (called Chedar) at the synagogue since the age of four until my Bar Mitzvah where I finally told them where to stick it, after cashing my cheques and hoarding the cake.

	10-02-2005 23:44									#36
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: Originally posted by Whaleboy Yes, we had to say prayers in lower school and middle school (Christian) which I always objected to, being the only Jew in the school I was trying to assert myself before I became an atheist. My parents forced me into Jewish education, had to go to Sunday school (called Chedar) at the synagogue since the age of four until my Bar Mitzvah where I finally told them where to stick it, after cashing my cheques and hoarding the cake.

Was your chedar anywhere near Cheddar? But gad these UK liberal Jews were old fashioned, i never hear it called chedar outside Orthodox circles.

	10-02-2005 23:46									#37
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes. I began school in 1970 and the whole education system in Quebec was just starting to come out from the Catholic church's coontrol. I had some mandatory religious courses in primary and secondary school but not every year. Early on they were named religion courses - and only ever presented Roman Catholic POV - but later, as Quebec built its own education system they were called social sciences or even "religious sciences". I had a few nuns and priests as teachers along the way. They're a rarity now i guess, if there are any left.

	10-02-2005 23:59									#38
	Increase Your PM Length

Religious education class for 3 years from age 11-14 ish. Covered allsorts, but not too much about christianty. I remember learning about the lives of the Bushmen of the Kalahari and stuff like that. 15-16 it turned into a sociology GCSE course without much in the way of relgious over tones.

We sung hymns and stuff at the morning assembly, primary and secondary school (age7-16), but you could opt out of it on religious grounds if you wanted to.

	11-02-2005 00:30									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yes, assorted hymns and stuff in primary school - you could opt out, but only theoretically, no-one did. The teachers seemed very serious about it.

Less of that at high school, although there was still some. In both cases, we sometimes had ministers from the various churches turn up and tell us why Easter was important, and stuff like that.

RE was heavily Christian-centric. I don't remember atheism being taught as an equally valid option - it most definitely should be. Only problem is, most RE teachers wouldn't want to, because they're 'spritual' people.

	11-02-2005 00:38									#40
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

I don't think RE should comment on the validity of various creeds at all.

	11-02-2005 00:43									#41
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I don't think that there are many RE teachers who don't have a faith. They're about as likely a non-games player who is well informed about the console (and PC) wars.

edit- you say earlier in the thread that you had an atheist one: I'm wrong.

	11-02-2005 00:46									#42
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Of the five I got thru, I know two were Christians, think one was, know that one was an atheist, and have no idea about the last one.

	11-02-2005 00:56									#43
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by laurentius Orthodox pupils have religion lessons of their own

Yeah, I went to these. You don't know boredom until you've seen videotape about monks of the monastery of Valamo doing their daily activities. While the Lutherans were learning that boy howdy, there indeed was this fellow named St. Paul, we were learning about mother****ing onion domes. Endless onion domes. What the hell did we need the onion dome knowledge for, anyhow? I ASK YOU

But I can, at least thank the religion classes for this brilliant answer in grade school religion exam (paraphrased, it might have been someone other than JtB but idea's the same):

Q: What did John the Baptist do?
A: He baptized.

(Okay, it was 'he baptized and taught' but the 'taught' was clearly an afterthought.)

	11-02-2005 00:58									#44
	Got spare money?

I had religion through grade 1 to grade 9 and took the religion courses in upper comprehensive/senior high (excuse me but I am loathe to compare it to an American high school) because they were more convenient that way, even though I haven't been a member of the church for a while now. My parents even threw me into a free religious daycare set up by the local parish for a few years, but miraculously I turned out a decent, God-eschewing citizen.

quote: Originally posted by Patriqvium I've also heard stories of fouled-up fundie teachers who tell the kids that all "pagans" (kids who don't belong to the church) go to hell and so on.

I have my own horror story to share - we had a "free church nutcase" as Buck so eloquently puts it in my school, a member of the local Pentecostalist church to be exact, teaching both in the comprehensive and upper secondary schools (they share the building). I was in comprehensive school at the time and didn't experience this, it was a secondary school class.

This was the year (I forget when, 5 years ago perhaps) when gay civil unions were being voted on in the parliament. The teacher opened up the TV set in class and asked the students to pray with her so that the MPs would vote against the bill and that it would not pass. This, of course, raised hell (excuse the pun) and we got rid of the mad bint soon after. Around the same time a group of 3rd year students managed to wrangle the school principal into allowing those who are not members of the church to excuse themselves whenever there's a "spiritual message" by a reverend in the school PA system.

I find it rather ironic - in the US, gay civil unions are being clamped down on hard, while here in the Jesusland of no separation of church and state, they're allowed.

	11-02-2005 01:11									#45
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Sandman I don't think that there are many RE teachers who don't have a faith. They're about as likely a non-games player who is well informed about the console (and PC) wars.

Of course, I've never had classic RE classes, but the Life Philosophy classes that I had were usually given by either atheist or non-practicing christian teachers (which is pretty much what 70-80% of the population is over here).

And that while I attended a school which was officially catholic (but aside from some crosses decorating the older classrooms and a communal christmas celebration for which attendance was officially mandatory (but in practice skipping out was accepted, especially from known non-christian students) there was no real evidence of that).

	11-02-2005 01:15									#46
	Got spare money?

If by "mandatory" you mean "my mom made me go to Sunday School", then yes.

	11-02-2005 01:49									#47
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Q Cubed If by "mandatory" you mean "my mom made me go to Sunday School", then yes.

Same here.

	11-02-2005 01:49									#48
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia I find it rather ironic - in the US, gay civil unions are being clamped down on hard, while here in the Jesusland of no separation of church and state, they're allowed.

This sort of thing was noted a long time ago.

Read Alexis De Toqueville, Democracy in America.

Summary - established churches lead to irreligion, by associating the church with the often unpopular state.

and yes, if anyones interested, thats one reason id very much like to see a reduction in state involvement in religion in Israel.

	11-02-2005 02:04									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by Stefu Yeah, I went to these. You don't know boredom until you've seen videotape about monks of the monastery of Valamo doing their daily activities. While the Lutherans were learning that boy howdy, there indeed was this fellow named St. Paul, we were learning about mother****ing onion domes. Endless onion domes. What the hell did we need the onion dome knowledge for, anyhow? I ASK YOU But I can, at least thank the religion classes for this brilliant answer in grade school religion exam (paraphrased, it might have been someone other than JtB but idea's the same): Q: What did John the Baptist do? A: He baptized. (Okay, it was 'he baptized and taught' but the 'taught' was clearly an afterthought.)

I had this too, easiest subject ever. Around 2% of people are orthodox, meaning I basicly had a private teacher. Usually it was just me and him, most was four pupils at once and that didn't last long. Usually we did the studying in 20 minutes, chatted for 15 minutes about whatever and then I got to leave 10 minutes early. No tests either "We don't need to take any exams, I know you know this stuff." Well, I bearly did.

Only bad thing was that if the non orthodox people had their studies in the middle of the day, I couldn't get that time off. My class was a set time at end of the day once every week.

	11-02-2005 02:12									#50
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Yes, from attending private Catholic schools from k-12, but never had a school uniform. About 10% of the teachers were nuns/priests. Religion classes included learning about other religions not only in class but through field trips (Jewish temples, Muslim mosques, etc) where anyone could ask questions to the leaders of those faiths there. Atheist, agnostic and deist were more terms to memorize rather than discussed like the religions. No beliefs were discussed negatively. Some religion classes included hours of mandatory 'volunteer work' we had to complete on our own time.

	11-02-2005 02:26									#51
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Pyrodrew Religion classes included learning about other religions not only in class but through field trips (Jewish temples, Muslim mosques, etc) where anyone could ask questions to the leaders of those faiths there.

We did that too. An interesting experience, back then it was the first time for many of us to set foot in any religious building (well, not counting those of us who were dragged away from the pool/beach and into churches and monestaries as tourist attractions on vacations )

	11-02-2005 04:42									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Religion classes included learning about other religions not only in class but through field trips (Jewish temples, Muslim mosques, etc)

No chapels? No cathedrals? Why is that?

I had mandatory religious education here in Canada, for my social studies class, where the only religion not featured was Christianity.

	11-02-2005 04:44									#53
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Certainly isn't mandatory in Canada.

If you want to graduate, it is.

	11-02-2005 04:44									#54
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi No chapels? No cathedrals? Why is that?

He's talking about real religions, not cults.

	11-02-2005 04:49									#55
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi If you want to graduate, it is.

I really wouldn't call what BC has (or had, I don't know if it's changed since I went through) religious education in the sense implied in this thread. It's not like you have to read Hindu scripture or learn any particulars of the Koran.

	11-02-2005 04:50									#56
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: He's talking about real religions, not cults.

Care to try again?

	11-02-2005 04:59									#57
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I attended two Catholic schools. Religion was mandatory at both, funnily enough.

	11-02-2005 07:22									#58
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I took a religious philosophy A-level when I moved back to England. Best thing I ever did. Made me a much better debater and cermented my atheism.

	11-02-2005 08:13									#59
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

"Culture of Religion and Knowledge of Ethics" is a compulsory course in Turkey, from 6 through 12th grade, two hours a week, so I had to take it like everybody else.

I don't know if it seems puzzling at first that strictly secular Turkey should have compulsory religious education, but in fact it's a reflection of state control over religion although it also represents a compromise on the part of the establishment in the perennial tug of war with the conservatives.

The Islam thought in classes is the traditional sunni one, which annoys a lot of Alawites (not to mention atheists ).

I guess now in conjunction with the EU accession process, there's some toying with the idea of putting in some Alawite Islam in the courses along with a little more Sufism. Notwithstanding the fact that there's no urgent outcry from the Alawites for this, if it happens it will have happened during the tenure of a party with traditional Islamic roots.

	11-02-2005 08:22									#60
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Dry - NoneOfTheAbove. Its was called 'morale'.

I think you mean "morals". Morale refers to the happiness level of a group of people, usually troops.

In fact, morale is often at odds with morals.