19-02-2005 01:56									#91
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SAVE FERRIS!

	19-02-2005 02:01									#92
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So how significant is the Lebanese opposition is comparison to government loyalists, and those who are on neither side?

As for France- if France were anti_israeli, they would not have made it possible for Israel to have the bomb. Or been Israel's largest arms suppliers until about the mid 1960's. BUt of course we all know Ned is insane, so, what am I doing resposding to his abjectly moronic trolls??

	19-02-2005 02:01									#93
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Gepap

	19-02-2005 02:04									#94
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quote: Originally posted by GePap So how significant is the Lebanese opposition is comparison to government loyalists, and those who are on neither side? As for France- if France were anti_israeli, they would not have made it possible for Israel to have the bomb. Or been Israel's largest arms suppliers until about the mid 1960's. BUt of course we all know Ned is insane, so, what am I doing resposding to his abjectly moronic trolls??

In fairness to Ned, that was over 40 years ago, and policies which De Gaulle set out to reverse fairly quickly. That said, i think spiff has french policy down much better.

	19-02-2005 02:07									#95
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quote: Originally posted by GePap So how significant is the Lebanese opposition is comparison to government loyalists, and those who are on neither side?

"The meeting was attended by more than 40 of the parliament's 128 members, as well as dozens of political activists"

From siros post above.

Doesnt say how many of the remaining 88 are pro-govt vs fence sitters. Or how this reflects opinion outside parliament. Note that while Lebanons elections have been relatively fair, IIUC, Syrian intell penetration of Lebanese society is said to run pretty deep.

	19-02-2005 02:08									#96
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Fairness to Ned!? Since when do insane trolls require fairness? France never had a policy of supporting the Arab states vs. Israel- if they did, why didn;t they sell arms to the Arabs widely? Why not extend the whole nuclear proliferation gift?

There is a difference between denouncing an Israeli preemptive strike (IF that is what France did) and backing the destruction of Israel.

Crazy trolls require nothing more than utter contempt and ridicule.

	19-02-2005 02:09									#97
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Ned isn't insane. He just inhabits a separate universe that happens to intersect with ours on this webpage.

	19-02-2005 02:21									#98
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Fairness to Ned!? Since when do insane trolls require fairness? France never had a policy of supporting the Arab states vs. Israel- if they did, why didn;t they sell arms to the Arabs widely? Why not extend the whole nuclear proliferation gift? There is a difference between denouncing an Israeli preemptive strike (IF that is what France did) and backing the destruction of Israel. Crazy trolls require nothing more than utter contempt and ridicule.

1. supporting the arab states vs Israel does not necessarily equal wanting the destruction of Israel, even if thats the arab states goal. One could want Israel taken down a notch. I realize thats not what Ned said (ned was wrong) but its not inconceivable that French disagreement with Israel goes beyond neutrality.
2. the EU for some time has boycotted weapons sales to both sides. This constrains sales to Israel by countries like Germany, a worthwhile tradeoff for France. Besides, France DID sell arms to Iraq, IIRC.

3. In general i find contempt and ridicule poor approaches to discussion (though i may fail to live up to this myself - im sorry). They dont contribute to learning, or to a positive atmosphere. Its best, as Ming says, to debate the post, NOT the poster - even an idiot may something correct once in awhile. Theres a reason ad hominem is considered an illogical technique

4. In particular, your implication, that Frances pro-Israel stance of the 1950's is disprobative of allegations that France is anti-Israel now is simply not valid. The USSR sold weapons to China in the 1950s, yet was at the point of war with China in 1969. relationships like this change, sometimes fairly quickly.