15-02-2005 00:23									#1
	You can throw grenades at Americans, but you can't take tinkling on yourself? Increase Your PM Length

On Friday, an editorial in The Toronto Star newspaper headlined, "Try Khadr or Release Him."

The paper is demanding that 18-year-old named Omar Khadr (search) either get a trial for his alleged crimes, or be given his release from Guantanamo Bay (search), where he is being held indefinitely as a terrorist picked up on the field of battle. There is no doubt that a terrorist is precisely what he is.

At age 15 fifteen, Khadr was wounded in a battle in Afghanistan with American troops, in which his Al Qaeda (search) father was killed and his Al Qaeda brother was badly wounded.

Omar Khadr threw a grenade that killed an American medic who was rushing into render first aid as the battle died down and it was obvious the young Khadr was badly wounded.

The Khadr family is Canadian, much to Canada's shame. The Toronto Star refers to the family as despised in Canada. If that's true, it's the first good news out of Canada in years.

The Khadrs have used Canada as a home base for years, while they conducted jihad against Americans and others in Afghanistan. The father was a close associate of Usama bin Laden, in fact the elder Khadr took care of some of bin Laden's financial matters.


The family divided its time between Afghanistan Al Qaeda training camps and Canada where they came home to raise money for Afghan relief, cash that really went into the terror training operations.

There is no doubt the younger Khadr being held by the Americans at Gitmo is terrorist through and through. We would have been perfectly entitled to put a bullet in his head on the field of battle, but American troops saved his life instead and he now is served three squares in Gitmo.

His lawyers say he's been abused at Gitmo: tortured and forced to urinate on himself while shackled. All in all humiliated.

Poor baby. You can throw grenades at Americans, but you can't take tinkling on yourself? Aww. We feel so bad.

Actually, we don't. This is another instance where we're going to have to tell Canada to forget it.

The younger Khadr is the worst of the worst. He belongs right where he is and he deserves to stay there as long as we want.

That's My Word.

	15-02-2005 00:25									#2
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that's not My word... got this from foxnews i think. just something to read. but i agree with it.

	15-02-2005 00:34									#3
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Yeah of course he should be tried...however it does sound like the rest of the family should be tried too...

	15-02-2005 00:44									#4
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV that's not My word... got this from foxnews i think. just something to read. but i agree with it.

Yeah, I had a hard time figuring out that it came from Fox.

	15-02-2005 00:45									#5
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Well, since he's apparently not a PoW, what reason, exactly, is there not to try him? It does sound like they do have a few things on him ...

	15-02-2005 00:47									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Last Conformist Well, since he's apparently not a PoW, what reason, exactly, is there not to try him? It does sound like they do have a few things on him ...

Yes, menstrual fluid

	15-02-2005 00:57									#7
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I'd be interested in knowing who wrote this. Probably that big splotchy bully Bill O'Reilly. Just making up sh*t as he goes.

	15-02-2005 01:40									#8
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quote: Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV got this from foxnews i think. just something to read.

Ah, a contradiction in terms.

	15-02-2005 01:47									#9
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Try him or let him go. I mean they have plenty on him, what's the reason for not trying him?

	15-02-2005 01:49									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Try him or let him go. I mean they have plenty on him, what's the reason for not trying him?

Entertainment value?

	15-02-2005 01:52									#11
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quote: Originally posted by Clear Skies Ah, a contradiction in terms.

Which, "Fox" and "news" or "Foxnews" and "I think"?

	15-02-2005 02:04									#12
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His lawyers say he's been abused at Gitmo: tortured and forced to urinate on himself while shackled. Poor baby. You can throw grenades at Americans, but you can't take tinkling on yourself? Aww. We feel so bad.

Uh, no one should be abused that way no matter how much you don't like them and no matter what mistakes they have made. They are human, they were born human, and they will remain human forever. When you degrade a fellow human, you degrade me and you degrade yourself.

	15-02-2005 02:24									#13
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From the article:

"There is no doubt the younger Khadr being held by the Americans at Gitmo is terrorist through and through."

No doubt? If the evidence is so undeniable, why the fear of putting him on trial? Ahh, b/c torture feels better.

	15-02-2005 02:29									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki Which, "Fox" and "news" or "Foxnews" and "I think"?

Actually I was going for "Fox news" and "something to read" (as in, something worth reading), but both of yours are equally true

	15-02-2005 02:31									#15
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How does throwing a grenade at enemy soldiers make you a terrorist? It ought to make you a POW.

	15-02-2005 02:34									#16
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The whole mercenary aspect of the situation changes that though...

	15-02-2005 02:38									#17
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Perhaps the evidence against Khadr is as solid as that used by Powell at the UN......

	15-02-2005 02:41									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison Yeah of course he should be tried...however it does sound like the rest of the family should be tried too...

Armed soldiers on the battle field who do not wear recognizable military uniforms are unlawful combatants who are explicitly striped of all protections under the Geneva and Hague Conventions. He was armed, he was a combatant, he murdered medical personnel who were fulfilling their duty to care for the sick and injured, and he was not in a military uniform. This case is open and shut.

Under the Geneva Convention he could have legally been lined up against a wall and shot. Instead he has been given prison until the end of hostilities and that's pretty damn generous.

	15-02-2005 02:41									#19
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Somehow, that article manages to wipe all disgust I had towards that kid's actions. At least he's not an American Conservative.

	15-02-2005 02:43									#20
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quote: Armed soldiers on the battle field who do not wear recognizable military uniforms are unlawful combatants who are explicitly striped of all protections under the Geneva and Hague Conventions. He was armed, he was a combatant, he murdered medical personnel who were fulfilling their duty to care for the sick and injured, and he was not in a military uniform. This case is open and shut.

Is Guantanamo on or not on US soil? The SCOTUS has ruled in the past that Constitutional protections extend to non-citizens on US soil. Among the Bill of Rights is a provision that says there is a right to a speedy trial. Yeah, it is open and shut, but in a different way than you think.

	15-02-2005 02:44									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Try him or let him go. I mean they have plenty on him, what's the reason for not trying him?

Because legally we don't have to and we don't want to set a precident which would force us to let the more dangerous terrorists lose? If you're caught on the battle field then the Geneva Convention applies including the clauses you don't like about unlawful combatants.

	15-02-2005 02:44									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Armed soldiers on the battle field who do not wear recognizable military uniforms are unlawful combatants who are explicitly striped of all protections under the Geneva and Hague Conventions. He was armed, he was a combatant, he murdered medical personnel who were fulfilling their duty to care for the sick and injured, and he was not in a military uniform. This case is open and shut. Under the Geneva Convention he could have legally been lined up against a wall and shot. Instead he has been given prison until the end of hostilities and that's pretty damn generous.

So the best thing to do is to lock him up and abuse him until "hostilities" are over, and then what? Release him? I'm sure he'll be a model citizen after that, and love the US with all his heart and soul.

	15-02-2005 02:47									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Is Guantanamo on or not on US soil? The SCOTUS has ruled in the past that Constitutional protections extend to non-citizens on US soil. Among the Bill of Rights is a provision that says there is a right to a speedy trial. Yeah, it is open and shut, but in a different way than you think.

According to the terms of the lease Gitmo is part of Cuba that the US military gets to use. Therefor it is not part of the US.

	15-02-2005 02:48									#24
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The US gov. has got to stop saying one thing and doing the other. Credibility = 0 and it is no wonder.

	15-02-2005 02:50									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin According to the terms of the lease Gitmo is part of Cuba that the US military gets to use. Therefor it is not part of the US.

SCOTUS says otherwise.

	15-02-2005 02:52									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin According to the terms of the lease Gitmo is part of Cuba that the US military gets to use. Therefor it is not part of the US.

It is leased by the US, therefore I'd consider that to be US soil. It'd be different if we kept them in US occupied Afghanistan, but this is legally transfered land to the US for a period of (IIRC) 99 years. Any crimes at Gitmo are heard by US military tribunal, not Cuban courts, for one.

	15-02-2005 02:54									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki So the best thing to do is to lock him up and abuse him until "hostilities" are over, and then what? Release him? I'm sure he'll be a model citizen after that, and love the US with all his heart and soul.

I disagree that he has been abused. Can you site any evidence that he has been abused? Him pissing himself is hardly conclusive and that is the worst his own lawyer could come up with. When exactly did this occur? On a 20 hour flight from Afghanistan? We don't know so it would be premature to comment.

	15-02-2005 02:58									#28
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara SCOTUS says otherwise.

Please site where the SCOTUS has said unlawful combatants are entitled to the same protections as citizens.

	15-02-2005 03:00									#29
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che was responding to the claim Guantánamo isn't American soil.

	15-02-2005 03:02									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Any crimes at Gitmo are heard by US military tribunal, not Cuban courts, for one.

The reason Cuban courts don't get a say is because the US doesn't recognize nor does it maintain diplomatic relations with the Communist government of Cuba. Granted military courts have always had rule there since the US military took charge of Gitmo but legally it is not the US nor even a US territory and instead is a Cuban territory which the US is authorised to use. I would be for granting Geneva rights to uniformed Taliban soldiers but they seem to be as rare as diamonds.