19-02-2005 16:24									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp It did, but it needs to be taken into context. The "Nazi War Criminal" jibe came before there was any raising of Jewish origin, and the "guard" jibe was a progression from it. Should he have said "Oh my God! You're Jewish! I retract my earlier statement unreservedly!"?

'On tape Mr Livingstone, who once worked as a freelance restaurant critic on the paper, is heard asking reporter Oliver Finegold if he is a "German war criminal".

Mr Finegold replies: "No, I'm Jewish, I wasn't a German war criminal. I'm quite offended by that."

The mayor then says: "Ah right, well you might be, but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?" '




Not quite the way I read it Laz. He starts with 'German war criminal' then on finding out the reporter is Jewish, ratchets it up to 'concentration camp guard'. If we place Livingstone's comemnts 'in context' then they come just after the worldwide commemorations of the liberation of Auschwitz. Ken knew what he was doing, and that the remark would be offensive.



Mr. Livingstone also seems to have forgotten his stint with the Rothermere press when presumably he was just doing his duty too....

	19-02-2005 16:55									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp He met with Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, just as every Northern Ireland Secretary for the last decade has. He was condemned at the time, but simply looks ahead of his time with hindsight. As for the second example, given his record of adopting tactics that soon become the mainstream, I'll reserve judgemnt for now.

the difference is that at the time livingstone met them, they were busy bombing targets up and down the country.

i think if people who support suicide bombers and killing jewish children have become mainstream then we are in a lot of trouble :/

	19-02-2005 19:07									#213
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quote: Originally posted by molly bloom Not quite the way I read it Laz. He starts with 'German war criminal' then on finding out the reporter is Jewish, ratchets it up to 'concentration camp guard'. If we place Livingstone's comemnts 'in context' then they come just after the worldwide commemorations of the liberation of Auschwitz. Ken knew what he was doing, and that the remark would be offensive.

Surely 'concentration camp guard' is a ratcheting down from German war criminal? It's "person who does the job which involves ignoring suffering" rather than "person inflicting suffering". It's offensive to the reporter, not to the entire Jewish community.

	19-02-2005 22:31									#214
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Incidentally, since Blair said he thought that Ken should apologise, a surprising number of Tory commentators have come out in support of Livingstone and have accused Blair of opportunistic bullying to court the Jewish vote (while simultaneously sending out subliminal anti-semitic messages in their election posters).

Poltician = Sordid Whore. And the world keeps on turning.

	20-02-2005 18:24									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Immortal Wombat Surely 'concentration camp guard' is a ratcheting down from German war criminal? It's "person who does the job which involves ignoring suffering" rather than "person inflicting suffering". It's offensive to the reporter, not to the entire Jewish community.

No, it's a ratcheting up- 'German war criminals' is non-specific in terms of relating to a Jewish experience.

This is not to say that the experience of the concentration camps was a uniquely Jewish trial, because it was not, as many of the commemorations of Auschwitz's liberation made clear.

However, a specific obvious linkage between European Jewry and the camps is rather apparent to anyone who either lived through WWII, is of Jewish descent, or has studied the history of WWII.

	21-02-2005 01:26									#216
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The British invented the concentration camp in South Africa...so the comparison is pretty meaningless, just that the Germans were the most notorious users of this concept.