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Ljube
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Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:23
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The Babs reply:
quote:
Greetings, I am Gamecube64, the assigned ambassador to your fine nation from Babylon. We wish no ill will to come between us, as we are a peaceful culture with great interests in art and science, but be warned. If you cross us we will not hesitate to attack. Our goddess
Inanna may be of love, but she is also of war.
We have just discovered the secrets of mysticism, and are now thinking of how to get a polytheism to work. Now, what are you working on?
Gamecube64,
Babylonian Ambassador
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And I respond too:
quote:
We are on iron working.
Well, even though we see little room for future tech trade at the moment, we believe that this open exchange of scientific goals and ideas will build the trust between our two civilisations. If we cannot cooperate in the scientific field directly, surely we can be loyal friends in war and trading partners in peace.
We would like to use this opportunity to convey our concern regarding the aggressive actions committed by your northeastern neighbour and by the threat the military build-up of your western neighbour poses to both our nations. We hope that checking these two threats will be a top priority in our future plans.
Long live Beta, the glorious leader of the Babylonians and long live his wise Ambassador Gamecube64!
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Ljube
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Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:23
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Then I confronted Snoopy with this. Because they didn't give us wheel accepted last turn I thought they were scheming behind our backs.
Ljube: says:
snoopy, are you secretly dealing with another civ?
Ljube: says:
behind our back?
Snoopy: says:
huh?
Ljube: says:
I mean who else have you offered wheel?
Snoopy: says:
To my knowledge we haven't offered it to anyone ...
Ljube: says:
hmm, that means somebody else has it already
Snoopy: says:
's possible
Snoopy: says:
dunno why someone would research it tho
Snoopy: says:
unless it was under the theory that nobody else would
Snoopy: says:
why?
Snoopy: says:
who has it
Ljube: says:
the babs will get it in a deal
Snoopy: says:
hmm
Ljube: says:
do you have contact with babs
Snoopy: says:
perhaps that's a future deal
Snoopy: says:
i don't think so
Ljube: says:
lol, I thought you knew so
Snoopy: says:
think i know roughly where they are, but no direct contact
Snoopy: says:
well, McM might have forgotten to say
Snoopy: says:
but i doubt it
Snoopy: says:
oh and go to hangman and put in a word
Ljube: says:
OK, I will, but know our relations dropped from gracious to polite
Snoopy: says:
why's that
Ljube: says:
we don't appreciate being played with
Snoopy: says:
huh?
Snoopy: says:
I'm not playing with you ...
Snoopy: says:
other than in the sense that we're playing a game together
Snoopy: says:
we have been honest in our dealings with you
Snoopy: says:
Although i would note that you had made something of an agreement involving wheel yourself ...
Ljube: says:
not any more
Snoopy: says:
i gathered as much
Ljube: says:
and we discussed
Ljube: says:
with you
Snoopy: says:
well, you discussed it as a deal that was done or nearly so ... just saying
Snoopy: says:
it's more than we've done with wheel
Snoopy: says:
you're just assuming we're being dishonest because one of four other civs in the game developped a tech before us...
Snoopy: says:
and wheel was exempted from being one of the techs we needed to discuss *anyway*
Ljube: says:
wheel was exempted from being forbidden to trade but included in being discussed
Snoopy: says:
on the on hand, Ljube, you act as if this is strictly a value trading arrangement, when it suits you (as in stuff you develop) ... but in relation to our techs, you act as if it is something more
Snoopy: says:
consistency is all we ask.
Ljube: says:
no, we are happy to give you more that you give us, we just don't want you sharing techs with anyone and not informing us
Snoopy: says:
Just as long as you are consistent, we will have no qualms with this agreement.
Ljube: says:
ok, I trust you it was not you
Ljube: says:
if it was not you, then who was it?
Snoopy: says:
I have no clue ... perhaps the lost boys
Snoopy: says:
Lord Nuclear and folk
Snoopy: says:
haven't contact with them directly yet thou
Snoopy: says:
but i could see them researching it as their first research
Snoopy: says:
or is wheel the Egyptian UU?
Snoopy: says:
did AM perhaps develop it?
Ljube: says:
the deal is: babs give myst+money and undisclosed civ gives wheel
Snoopy: says:
myst?
Snoopy: says:
oh
Snoopy: says:
lol
Ljube: says:
yes, lol
Snoopy: says:
that's a pretty good deal for
Ljube: says:
who would be that stupid
Snoopy: says:
depending on the money i guess
Snoopy: says:
if we're talking 10 gp then ... dunno
Ljube: says:
so you think myst is worth the wheel?
Snoopy: says:
but ... wheel and myst are about equal in research difficulty
Snoopy: says:
I don't think wheel is as big an advantage as you do
Ljube: says:
but myst is worthless while wheel is precious
Snoopy: says:
in this era horse-based units are worthless
Snoopy: says:
myst is at least as hard to develop ... from an era-advancement point of view
Ljube: says:
but resource is ultra important
Snoopy: says:
Ultimately yes ... but it seems that iron is more often a problem than horses
Ljube: says:
who cares about era advancement
Snoopy: says:
um
Snoopy: says:
people who are more interested in fighting with knights than with horses?
Snoopy: says:
half of the civs here have a feudalism or chivalry UU, no?
Ljube: says:
no, only you and me
Snoopy: says:
hm
Snoopy: says:
carthage does too, doesn't it?
Snoopy: says:
not that i have ever played them before to remember
Ljube: says:
carts have a UU with bronze
Snoopy: says:
hm
Snoopy: says:
well still, knight is rather better than 2/1/2
Snoopy: says:
some may not feel that they need to worry about this era
Snoopy: says:
You may disagree, but i suspect some people think this way
Ljube: says:
most of us won't be alive by that time
Snoopy: says:
As i said.
Snoopy: says:
thing is, it should be us and you that are thinking that way, civ-wise
Snoopy: says:
the rest all have UUs in this era and should be exploiting them
Snoopy: says:
but ... they don't, apparently
Snoopy: says:
even persia ... i'd think they'd have pushed by now
Snoopy: says:
they're the one civ with a really good UU in this era ... they should be romping
Ljube: says:
it is unlikely lost boys researched wheel
Ljube: says:
because they are probably on writing
Snoopy: says:
A-M makes more sense
Ljube: says:
or math
Snoopy: says:
probbaly ... thought we'd have contact with them by now
Ljube: says:
aqua wouldn't be so stupid
Ljube: says:
so the only other option is porkers
Snoopy: says:
they've confirmed they're working on iron
Snoopy: says:
AM i think is the logical one, that's their UU i believe anyway
Snoopy: says:
but that is a bad sign for you all
Snoopy: says:
or a good one depending on your point of view
Ljube: says:
but they started wheel after you
Ljube: says:
do you have contact with them?
Ljube: says:
if yes you should be able to see if they have wheel or not
Snoopy: says:
not yet no
Snoopy: says:
not aware of where they are
Snoopy: says:
they might have made a prescient deal
Snoopy: says:
ie a future promise
Ljube: says:
the babs told me they would have wheel next turn
Ljube: says:
easy to check if you indeed send it
Snoopy: says:
yeh McM should this upcoming turn
Ljube: says:
2 turns to iron here
Snoopy: says:
good
Snoopy: says:
then we can have a competitive army with persia
Snoopy: says:
Egypt UU is a cheaper 2/1/2 right?
Ljube: says:
babs tried to get iron for alpha, I rejected
Snoopy: says:
or is it 1/2/2
Snoopy: says:
hm
Snoopy: says:
yeh not good idea
Ljube: says:
it's 2/1/2
Snoopy: says:
but only 20 shields or something
Ljube: says:
yes 20
Snoopy: says:
eh, you should be fine with 3/2/1
Snoopy: says:
unless you're all flatland, which would suck
Ljube: says:
I don't worry about us
Snoopy: says:
but not too much
Ljube: says:
we're very strong
Snoopy: says:
not too worried, but if you were attacked it would slow you
Snoopy: says:
just as it would us
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Ljube
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Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:23
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Then after a discussion with our Great Khan, I approached Snoopy again in a reconciliatory tone which also demonstrated my apology for my earlier accusations. This does not mean I was convinced Snoopy and Mac weren't behind it. I just wanted to convince them if I could I was sorry for accusing them and want to apologise, but don't want to put it in those terms.
Ljube: says:
Dear Snoopy, Glorious Ambassador of the Euphoricans
Snoopy: says:
hehe
Snoopy: says:
yessir
Ljube: says:
I have discussed the issue of the wheel with our Great Khan and he thinks I got too upset
Ljube: says:
with the problem
Ljube: says:
it is not a problem between our two civilisations
Snoopy: says:
yessir
Ljube: says:
So we should get on with our business as usual
Snoopy: says:
will do
Snoopy: says:
starting with FG: Hangman? *-)
Ljube: says:
oh, soory, right away
Snoopy: says:
heheh
Snoopy: says:
with any luck you'll get alpha with the hut anywho
Ljube: says:
yes indeed
Snoopy: says:
or the other hut
Snoopy: says:
i'd say odds are high one or the other
Ljube: says:
what say you about the request of th ebabs to give them iron for alpha
Snoopy: says:
Hmm ... not sure
Ljube: says:
I think such trade is not a fair one
Snoopy: says:
depends on the location of the babs, really
Snoopy: says:
if they're not anywhere near you, you could consider it
Snoopy: says:
well, i'd ask for a little bit more
Ljube: says:
I rejected the trade out of principal
Snoopy: says:
hehe
Snoopy: says:
it's not even in either utility or beakers, at this point in the game
Snoopy: says:
i'd say IW for writing maybe
Snoopy: says:
or math
Ljube: says:
indeed
Ljube: says:
if they want iron, let them research it hahaha
Snoopy: says:
well, are they past the A-M people or are they closer to you (or not on the same side)
Snoopy: says:
if they're past A-M then you should consider giving it to them for a reasonable price
Ljube: says:
closer to evil pigs
Snoopy: says:
because they would take away (potentially) iron from A-M
Ljube: says:
best if our mighty armies took it away from both of them
Snoopy: says:
not sure iron for alpha is a good deal, but still
Snoopy: says:
well, but you have to go one at a time
Ljube: says:
I would love if our soldiers could exhaust the source somehow
Ljube: says:
Snoopy: says:
just hope you don't exhaust your own source *-)
Ljube: says:
hahaha
Ljube: says:
lo
Ljube: says:
lol
Snoopy: says:
anywho, have fun, i should be getting ready for work soon
Ljube: says:
lol, this late?
Ljube: says:
how?
Snoopy: says:
yessir, overnight inventory tomorrow
Ljube: says:
uh
Snoopy: says:
tonight i set tickets to count on
Ljube: says:
well I can't wish you to have fun
Snoopy: says:
hehe
Ljube: says:
OK, I'll post a word asap so you can post a guess
Snoopy: says:
k ty
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solax
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Mr. Ambassador:
What communications w/ the Babs have you had lately? I am worried w/ all this talk of war, we are not fully aware of what the rest of the World is up to. We need to have more stealth Intelligence on what the Babs are doing... where they might stand w/ the Porkers and what contact they have w/ Persia.
I think it is also imperative that we continue good relations w/ our Ally the Euphs. They seem to have to have at least some contact w/ the Persians (I'm assuming this is DR... is this the same as the "Aqua" that you speak of?) and before getting into war w/ the Pigs... we need to have some kind of established intelligence. Does Euph know that we are planning war, if not, do we plan on telling them? At this moment I think it might be a good thing to tell them at some point before going into war what our plans are. It is my understanding from your talks about Ironworking that they are quite worried about staying somewhat 'status-quo' w the Persians; and us going to war w/ the Pigs might make them more nervous than we want them to be.
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solax
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Perhaps this has been put in a thread, however, I don't remember reading about the conflict of "?" (city). Is this something you and snoopy spoke about? This is interesting news and our historical writers must hear of this so we can become more knowledgeable.
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Ljube
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Belgrade
May 2003
time: 06:23
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Of course.
McMeadows: says:
Greetings BOH
Ljube: says:
hello
McMeadows: says:
I just received the newest save
Ljube: says:
excellent
McMeadows: says:
thank you for IW and Myst
Ljube: says:
our pleasure
McMeadows: says:
I see BOH and DR have met
Ljube: says:
yes
Ljube: says:
do you see our scout?
McMeadows: says:
yes
Ljube: says:
on DR iron hill
Ljube: says:
I suggest you send two spearmen on that hill asap
Ljube: says:
we would do that, but we fear we can't get there in time
McMeadows: says:
haha... we don't have them in excess yet
Ljube: says:
if the DR are left unchecked, they will overwhelm you quickly
McMeadows: says:
a DR warrior is just as well heading for our iron
Ljube: says:
they know not where your iron is
McMeadows: says:
true... but are still just 2 tiles away from it
Ljube: says:
if I were you I would block that iron without regard for anything
Ljube: says:
I would resort to pop rushing if needed
McMeadows: says:
matey, we don't have dozens of units running around yet
McMeadows: says:
there's not been any aggression between nations yet
McMeadows: says:
no need to panick
Ljube: says:
when there is the need to panic it will already be to late
Ljube: says:
don't trust aqua
Ljube: says:
he means no good
McMeadows: says:
still he's not playing alone
McMeadows: says:
and has been overruled before
Ljube: says:
yes, but when they see that iron close
Ljube: says:
his team will turn from sheep to wolves
McMeadows: says:
off course...
Ljube: says:
I'm very concerned
McMeadows: says:
we have an archer 2 tiles from their iron source
Ljube: says:
and even more concerened when I see you aren't concerned
Ljube: says:
wow!
Ljube: says:
an archer already
Ljube: says:
good deal
Ljube: says:
but you're still weak militarily compared to us at least
McMeadows: says:
true, that should be a temporily situation
Ljube: says:
lol
Ljube: says:
Ljube: says:
somehow I doubt it
Ljube: says:
McMeadows: says:
haha... big plans
McMeadows: says:
does BOH have an iron source secured for themselves?
Ljube: says:
of course
Ljube: says:
never doubt the horde
McMeadows: says:
good to hear..
McMeadows: says:
What does BOh suggest in trading attitude towards DR?
Ljube: says:
the trade you had with them (wheel for alpha) is ok
Ljube: says:
but don't give them any military techs
McMeadows: says:
what about Myst? (at sharing of benefits off course)
Ljube: says:
sure
Ljube: says:
that's fine
Ljube: says:
but iron never
Ljube: says:
we won't share iron with either babs or pigs
McMeadows: says:
they're working on IW anyway
Ljube: says:
not in a million years
Ljube: says:
if you believe them
McMeadows: says:
What would you be working on if you were Persia?
Ljube: says:
iron
Ljube: says:
McMeadows: says:
that's sorted out then... However, I'll offer them Myst instead
Ljube: says:
yeah
Ljube: says:
but what can they offer in return?
Ljube: says:
they're not the smartest people around if you catch my drift
McMeadows: says:
We might just see what they have available...
Ljube: says:
that's fine
Ljube: says:
Look, you can ignore the threat they pose, but I promise you, if you do that, sooner than you can say 'oh I made a mistake' they will dispose of your weak civilisation
Ljube: says:
and we wouldn't like that
Ljube: says:
for two reasons
Ljube: says:
One: because we love you
Ljube: says:
and two: Because we're next
McMeadows: says:
Thanks for the warning dear brother, but what makes you think we're not acknowledging the treat?
Ljube: says:
oh, just something I learned from here and there about one of your cities nearly being razed, that's all
McMeadows: says:
unfortunate turn of events, where it turns out that it's not all that great to be first in line on the turn order
Ljube: says:
we had similar problems with the pigs
Ljube: says:
but our first build in all cities were warriors
McMeadows: says:
a wise decision..
McMeadows: says:
We chose to invest in barracks first
Ljube: says:
hmm, risky
Ljube: says:
I hope it wasn't your captal that was threatened?
Ljube: says:
by the evil aqua warrior
Ljube: says:
also I heard there was a vote and aqua who wanted to kill you lost teh vote
Ljube: says:
democracy at work
McMeadows: says:
The unfortunate event originated from the DR warrior being on an elevated postion from which it could see deep into our territory and our defense was forced to choose to protect 1 city. We chose our capital of course. In striking position, DR turned away. As it appeared, the turn player had been called back....
Ljube: says:
fortunately for you
Ljube: says:
look, the key thing is whether your iron is on a hill or mountain
McMeadows: says:
hill
Ljube: says:
ours is on a hill
Ljube: says:
excellent, so you can build a city on top of it
Ljube: says:
the pigs were in pursuit of our settler we popped from that hut you gave us
Ljube: says:
for two turns they persecuted our defnceless settler (evil pigs) until it reached the point where we had two warriors
Ljube: says:
we'll see what they did this turn
McMeadows: says:
You will soon
McMeadows: says:
done playing and about to send ot on
Ljube: says:
Last edited by Ljube on 24-03-2005 at 05:18
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solax
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Bravo! Bravo! That had to be the best and most informative talk we have had yet. I mostly liked the part that they had an archer and are ready and willing to build more units! Though they may not have been too alarmed by the 2 tile iron resource, I think they are slightly bluffing.
I would also like to applaud you in putting in a some hint that perhaps we have ambitions of our own and they didn't seemed that concerned. I am satisfied @ the moment that our Ally can defend themselves for the time being and what ever tech we decide to research, "Get'er done!", expand some and then slaughter those Porkys. Well, tha-tha-that's all folks.
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18-03-2005 15:52
Great Ambassador, Can you enlighten us on these matters?
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