21-02-2005 07:35									#1
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This is the thread where we are going to discuss foreign affairs and make plans of Aqua's demise. But before we can come in that position, we must deal with pressing issues.

My first duty as Horde Ambassador was difficult negotiations with the leader of our militaristic neighbours the Chinese. I fear they are wolves in sheep's skin, but we shall see. It depends on their reply to my offer and how they respect that agreement should they say yes.

The offer was: Don't move any further with your warrior and we won't move ours.


Here's the full transcript:

Ljube: says:
Hello Glorious leader of our most civilised neighbours the Chinese. The Mongol ambasador greets you.
Snoopy: says:
Ah hello there then
Snoopy: says:
I am indeed the most glorious backup guitarist of the Euphoriscians
Snoopy: says:
hrm or perhaps that is the lyricist
Snoopy: says:
yes, lyricist
Ljube: says:
I've been authorised by our Great Khan Paddy the Scot to conduct these negotiations on behalf of our Horde.
Snoopy: says:
ahh well perhaps our music can be harmonious ...
Ljube: says:
Indeed, we hope we can find a n accord.
Snoopy: says:
I believe we have already had an accord
Ljube: says:
So we have and a very beneficial one. We are ready to extend our cooperation to other areas.
Ljube: says:
Our suggestion is very simple. We would like to avoid any possibility of accidental skirmish between our field forces.
Snoopy: says:
Hmm ... accidental skirmishes are so ... dischordious
Snoopy: says:
no, dischordant
Snoopy: says:
blah
Ljube: says:
Exactly my point. That is why we suggest that our warriors on scouting missions accept measures of restraint.
Snoopy: says:
hmm. I believe our musicians are quite adequately restrained ...
Ljube: says:
The measures being: Your warriors refrain from moving westward, while our warriors stay where they are.
Snoopy: says:

Snoopy: says:
Well ... I think that is rather an excessively ... restraining restraint
Snoopy: says:
after all our Bards have a need to spread music around the world ...
Ljube: says:
Westward movement by your friendly bards could by some of our more suspicious peers be construed as an assault. Now we wouldn't want that.
Snoopy: says:
We would think the Mongols might understand the desire of another to ... Explore ... given their natural traits ...
Ljube: says:
Indeed, but we already agreed to restrain ourselves and not explore in your direction. We've handicapped ourselves heavily for the sake of establishing trust and friendship. Are Chinese not willing to do the same?
Snoopy: says:
The Euphoriscians will discuss your offer amongst ourselves before making an answer. However we think your paranoia about exploration is unfounded ... we have not entered your territory, after all ... and have no peaceful explorer available to us as you do.
Snoopy: says:
We will get back to you within a reasonable time.
Ljube: says:
We are pleased with our first diplomatic exchange. You must understand the people of the steppes. They are suspicious by nature. But in time, living beside such good neighbours they may learn your ways and open doors for trade and further cooperation. We thank you for the audience and understanding. In keen anticipation of your reply, yours truly, Mongolian Ambassador Ljube:.
Snoopy: says:
We anticipate many fruitful discussions in the future... Euphoriscian Lyricist Snoopy369

Last edited by Ljube on 21-02-2005 at 07:50

	21-02-2005 07:54									#2
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If they reject our proposal that probably means they have aggression on their minds and we should probably switch our build in Karakorum to archer, or keep building barracks but withdraw our Wanderers to Karakorum and switch from scout to warrior in Kazan and move that warrior to Karakorum when complete, or switch to archer.

We should also treat the Chinese as hostile nation and prepare for a full scale attack against them as soon as possible.

	21-02-2005 08:11									#3
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Hmmm. An interesting exchange. Perhaps Snoopy is suspicious of our motives as well.

Note this passage:

quote: The Euphoriscians will discuss your offer amongst ourselves before making an answer. However we think your paranoia about exploration is unfounded ... we have not entered your territory, after all ... and have no peaceful explorer available to us as you do.

Here, I believe, Snoopy reveals the reason for his hesitation. They have no scout to cover the amount of territory that we can and fear that we will overcome their trading advantage (being positioned centrally as opposed to us being on an end of the map) by contacting civs faster than they can.

First we must determine if their intentions are peaceful or not. If they prove to be, then we may be able to work them into screening our eastern flank in exchange for knowledge that our scouts may discover(to an extent, of course )

	21-02-2005 08:32									#4
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Thank you for this Ambassador Ljube

Looking forward to more of this

	21-02-2005 11:18									#5
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I wonder how centrally located they are then?

I will look this over soon

and the more centrally they are then so to the more they can be overwhelmed by many indeed

	21-02-2005 12:46									#6
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Great work Ambassador Ljube

Great points Clansman Plato

I think the points plato makes are worth sewing into your approach with the Chinese Ljube, we could indeed gain a very usefullly placed ally or shield

	21-02-2005 14:03									#7
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Not having a dedicated scout unit that can move twice a turn is not a reason to proceed towards our cities when it is clear that we're on the edge of a continent. If establishing contact is their goal they should better return this warrior to one of their cities and send the other warrior out in some other direction to meet other civilisations.

Also please consider the proximity of their start location to ours as they got one space from our warrior in 5 turns. They are probably about five tiles northeast of the place where their warrior stands and we can consider ourselves lucky they chose to move in our direction.

As for their usefulness as a screen, well, if we let them live till chivalry we're history. So we better kill them with our archers or sword and horse before they can grow too powerful. And my advice is sooner rather than later. Also, do you buy their pottery story?

	21-02-2005 17:38									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko Not having a dedicated scout unit that can move twice a turn is not a reason to proceed towards our cities when it is clear that we're on the edge of a continent. If establishing contact is their goal they should better return this warrior to one of their cities and send the other warrior out in some other direction to meet other civilisations.

I can see the possibility that they would see it that way. We have suggested that they turn around. Perhaps we suggest that they turn due south? This would allow their off key bard to spread his lack of harmony in a different direction!

Further, I believe that they have already established contact with another civ. Consider:

quote: Snoopy:says: if you have need of a save i can play it out ... we have one or two changes that would be done depending on the deal we might arrive at but i can make a guess Snoopy:says: no visible changes would occur anyway

What changes would they be making should we have declined their trade offer? It appears at least possible that the same offer would be extended in another direction?

quote: Also please consider the proximity of their start location to ours as they got one space from our warrior in 5 turns. They are probably about five tiles northeast of the place where their warrior stands and we can consider ourselves lucky they chose to move in our direction.

If they came 5 spaces due west of their start that would put them vitually in the center if my dead reckoning is correct. Dominae's start locations could be simply evenly spread in order to provide the illusion of fairness. If they moved the same way in the other direction, they very possibly could have made contact.

quote: As for their usefulness as a screen, well, if we let them live till chivalry we're history. So we better kill them with our archers or sword and horse before they can grow too powerful. And my advice is sooner rather than later. Also, do you buy their pottery story?

Definately agree that they must be eliminated before then, but why not get some mileage out of them 1st? If we can coax them into orienting their defenses south and east then that leaves the back door open, no?

If it seems I am suggesting that we set them up for a cold blooded betrayal...then your probably correct.

	21-02-2005 17:44									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Paddy the Scot and the more centrally they are then so to the more they can be overwhelmed by many indeed

exactly. They have to trust someone if they are center board located. It would be virtually impossible to deploy their forces in three directions with any kind of effectiveness. This is the ultimate advantage that we have. We need only protect in two. They have every reason to want allies...and we have every reason to want it to be us...for the time being

	21-02-2005 21:49									#10
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO exactly. They have to trust someone if they are center board located. It would be virtually impossible to deploy their forces in three directions with any kind of effectiveness. This is the ultimate advantage that we have. We need only protect in two. They have every reason to want allies...and we have every reason to want it to be us...for the time being

blood oath we will

	22-02-2005 00:03									#11
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if they do live until Chivalry then we too will have a formidable UU in the Keshik.

The only over benefit of a rider is the extra move.

	22-02-2005 00:11									#12
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus if they do live until Chivalry then we too will have a formidable UU in the Keshik. The only over benefit of a rider is the extra move.

True, but their advantage is that they may be able to get there faster due to a more lucrative trading location.

	22-02-2005 00:39									#13
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ahh in the centre... Dom is a freak indeed

so I wonder how long before we have to reach out and smite the demo game founder and his team then

	22-02-2005 05:28									#14
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Our latest diplomatic exchange:


Snoopy: says:
heya, you here?
Ljube: says:
hello
Ljube: says:
any news?
Snoopy: says:
Well, we've considered your suggestion ... and want to discuss it.
Ljube: says:
OK
Snoopy: says:
See, the problem we see is that you're clearly towards the 'middle' of the pangea from us, while we're closer to the 'edge'
Snoopy: says:
so limiting our movement to the west will prevent us from seeing any civs to the west of you, of which there are probably several ...
Ljube: says:
Interesting analysis
Snoopy: says:
while we're probably closer to the eastern border, so there will be less civs to the east of us.
Ljube: says:
However I can assert that there aren't any civilisations west of us since we're on the edge of the pangea ourselves
Snoopy: says:
Hmm ... an interesting shaped pangea
Snoopy: says:
or perhaps we are mistaken as to our location ... hm
Ljube: says:
There has been an intense discussion in our Horde regarding your position
Snoopy: says:
lol
Ljube: says:
The majority think you are in the centre of the Pangea, but you seem to rule out that possibility
Ljube: says:
I think you are in the northeastern direction of the current position of your warrior, but I'm alone in this
Snoopy: says:
now i would be amused if this is a situation like in one of my games
Snoopy: says:
my pbem games, with grandpatroll - ask him about expansionist
Ljube: says:
What we wanted to ask you is to turn south
Snoopy: says:
I'll not indicate our exact position of course but ... hmm.
Ljube: says:
you may find more civilisations there
Snoopy: says:
hmm ... lol ok
Ljube: says:
OK, our warrior will stay where he is, and you may explore to the south but please avoid any progress westward
Snoopy: says:
Hmm... how far south do we need to go before we can head westward? I would expect eventually to do so ...
Snoopy: says:
eventually we'll hit the southern ocean after all
Ljube: says:
If you head westward at any time you will find desolate land devoid of all huts which our numerous scouts have already fully explored.
Snoopy: says:
hehe
Snoopy: says:
Nonetheless it would be nice to head west at some safe point when we no longer risk threatening your settlements ...
Snoopy: says:
understood that there are no huts, we don't exactly expect huts anywho
Ljube: says:
OK, when you have reached a barbarian settlement moving south you may head in the southwestern direction until you reach the jungle and move further to the southwest from there if you insist on moving to the west so much.
Ljube: says:
But there is nothing in the west
Snoopy: says:
Okay ... and thanks for the warning we shall consider not moving west
Snoopy: says:
at that point i mean
Snoopy: says:
and if you would like we shall dispatch of the barbarian settlement there and at any other point you indicate
Ljube: says:
absolutely appreciated
Snoopy: says:
given our bards have skills your scouts may not ...
Ljube: says:
lol
Snoopy: says:
and your warrior will remain in place?
Ljube: says:
yes, firmly
Snoopy: says:
ok if you decide to move him any direction other than west let us know first please
Ljube: says:
of course, we want to have good relations with our friends the Chinese
Ljube: says:
we are very happy with this agreement
Snoopy: says:
hmmm k
Snoopy: says:
let us know when/if you have technology to consider trading for
Snoopy: says:
and/or if we have mutual interests in other manners, of course we shall have to get an embassy before something of that nature is accomplished ...
Ljube: says:
Pleasure to be dealing with you
Snoopy: says:

Ljube: says:
Now I must report our agreement in our forum. The Horde will be pleased we have made a friend today.
Snoopy: says:
yessir
Snoopy: says:
may we play beauteous music alongside your fierce horse riders
Ljube: says:
Our riders have little sense of music, but we strive to learn.

	22-02-2005 05:31									#15
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They have agreed to head to the south until they reach the barbarian village, then proceed to the southwest.

Not exactly a diplomatic victory, but I believe we can get on with our initial plans after this agreement.

	22-02-2005 05:40									#16
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Thats actually very good work Ljube I salute you

	22-02-2005 06:07									#17
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quote: Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus Thats actually very good work Ljube I salute you

Agreed!

	22-02-2005 06:19									#18
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quote: Snoopy: says: ok if you decide to move him any direction other than west let us know first please

Interesting qualification. We trade them moving in a direction they probably haven't been yet in exchange for us only moving in the direction from whence we came.

All in all though, not a bad deal. I wonder, of what can they see of our realm from their pitiful bards position?

	22-02-2005 06:48									#19
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True, but I was happy to get them to move their warrior away from our cities so we can get on with our expansion plans. As to that warrior, he's not a very good explorer anyway. He's a much better defender. And our agreement only involves warriors, not scouts, so we can send one scout that way.

	22-02-2005 07:22									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Ljube-ljcvetko And our agreement only involves warriors, not scouts, so we can send one scout that way.

That's the way I interpreted it as well.

	22-02-2005 11:32									#21
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Cheeky indeed

	23-02-2005 09:19									#22
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Honorable Ambassador. How goes the meeting with the infidels of the west? Are they friendly sort?

	23-02-2005 15:38									#23
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I have not contacted them yet because I don't have their MSN contacts. I'll try emailing them later today.

	23-02-2005 16:00									#24
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I have sent you what contacts details that I have for the Porkers

By the end of this process you should have quite a comprehensive contact list.

Could you keep a excell file on them, in case you move to another port folio etc, and then someone steps in as Ambassador.

Also Chrisius may need this info when he gets the espionage ring up and running

	23-02-2005 17:04									#25
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I have a project for you Mr. Ambassador

You are to contact each team captain, and get their msn contact details, and that of the representative that will be their ambassador.

the idea is so that you have all of this information prior to our meeting them in the game, so when we do you can start on them straight away

	24-02-2005 13:51									#26
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I have done as you asked my Khan and 2 teams have already responded. They are the teams with which cooperation will be possible. Guess which teams didn't respond:

Aqua (must kill aqua)
Beta

and

Mor-pork

	24-02-2005 14:41									#27
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Thank you Ambassador Ljube

It is good that we now have contact with the Porkers

I hope that they have started to talk with you...


and yes we must kill aqua

	24-02-2005 20:34									#28
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Reply from Ankh-Morpork!!!111!1!11!1

Our offer: We offer our pottery for your ceremonial burial. Let's have a trade.

Their reply

quote: Hello, Ljubica, We have received your first message but we are not a big team and our members are not so active as yours. We will give an answer in the next days. Until we appoint someone to handle our contacts with the other teams you may send your messages to this email address. I hope we will help each other and establish friendly relations. Reagrds, ormuzd P.S. This is not official response, it's just a response to let you know we have received the message

My comments.

First they misspelled my name, a personal insult which caused me great injury. This particular name is female so you can imagine my anger.
However we can use this to our own advantage. The Bulgarian language only has this female form of the name so Mr. Ormuzd probably thinks I'm a hot girl. We can probably play on this.

Second, they seem friendly, yet they don't immediately accept an apparent fair deal. They will likely learn we have another contact and they'll extrapolate with whom because they can't offer masonry. They will possibly try to go around us, we'll see. They have also likely not met anyone else before, but possibly met someone else this turn.

All in all, they are not exactly xenophobic so a deal or two could possibly be made with them before we assimilate them in the near future. I suggest once we have dealt decisively with the Porkians that we suggest their former members to join our Horde.

	25-02-2005 01:16									#29
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Ankh-Morpork update


These guys seem to have a problem with their name. They don't know if they are Porkers or not.

quote: Greetings to the Great People of Conquest we would like to offer our hand in an offer of peace anad trade, but unfortunatly, we shall have pottery shortly, as it was the first tech we researched. However, we would like to offer another proposal: we woould like to trade to you Ceremonnial Burial and some gold for Warrior Code. We would also like to talk abouot future tech plans, via either PM or IRC Team AM

So, what to do next? Do we accept their offer (I don't really want to give them warrior code) or not? I don't buy their story the first tech they researched was pottery. According to Snoopy, so was the Euphorican. However I can't imagine anyone giving pottery precedence to say warrior code, bronze or the wheel.

	25-02-2005 02:04									#30
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Hmmm...The ultimate answer to this depends on when we decide to take them out. If it is soon, I say no. If we want to use them as allies for a while then I would seriously consider the offer.