23-02-2005 20:47									#1
	Blood oath horde Get a bigger avatar today!

It seems we have our first contact with the Blood oath horde

quote: Greetings warriors from the tribe of Ankh-Morpork. I represent the Horde and come before you with an offer to trade technologies. We have already offered pottery and would like to get ceremonial burial in return. If you fancy this deal, please send reply to ljcvetko@eunet.yu, or add me to your MSN with the address ljcvetko@eunet.yu or to your yahoo with the address lcvetkovic@yahoo.co.uk Regrads Ljube Blood Oath Horde Ambassador

ideas? suggestions?

The same guy has started topic about this matter Diplomacy, ambassadors and contacts

	23-02-2005 21:45									#2
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ah, ****, th one team that seems to have psycotc tenndencies, and we have to be right next to them...

too the deal: no, basically.Counteroffer them WC plus, say 15 gold for Masonry. If they decline as they don't want us to have archers, I think we ought to build up our military...Research BW after pottery is finished, instead of the wheel.


Maybe we could offer them a deal for the future: something alog the lines of we do the wheel and IW, they do BW and HBR (this also balances the tech cost, I believe)

	24-02-2005 01:24									#3
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Why me? My English sucks...
I wonder what happened with conqueror and the other team members

	24-02-2005 19:11									#4
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not sure why Krill doesn't want the trade of pots for cb?

we should probably take that one.

in general, we need to be thorough and polite in response to all messages. always see the positive side in every proposal. if we don't really want to do something, we will "paper them to death" as the lawyers say. never say no. always propose something else.

	24-02-2005 19:14									#5
	Remove this text

i keep forgetting to post in a way that generates a message when you guys post. doing it again here.

	24-02-2005 21:45									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

because we will research the pottery after 2 turns

	24-02-2005 22:18									#7
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quote: in general, we need to be thorough and polite in response to all messages. always see the positive side in every proposal. if we don't really want to do something, we will "paper them to death" as the lawyers say. never say no. always propose something else.

I know, and this is why I propsed th BW+HBR for IW and Wheel deal. i don't want them to know we will research pottery (actually, we will get it with less beakers now that we have met them. We will have to thank them for that )


Does anyone here use MSN? If no one does, we could ask them to direct diplo through PMs.


Damn, we alsoo have another problem: they have Maasonry. While it is not imposssible to get it from a hut, they could haave got it in a trade from another civ, as only they and babylon aren't industrious. If they have another civ to trade to, they have a rather large advantage over us...


Oh, and how what would people think of askingn them about a trade regarding WC for CB+something else?


My attempt at a message:

quote: Greetings to the Great People of Conquest we would like to offer our hand in an offer of peace anad trade, but unfortunatly, We shall have pottery shortly, as it was the first tech we researched. However, we would like to offer another proposal: We would research the Bronze working and trade it to you for the Wheel, and we would then research Iron Working and trade it to you for Horseback Riding. Unfortunatly, we don't have many active memberes up ATM, so coould you send and diplomatic messages to us via PM? jshelr, ormuzd and I are the best people to send to.

	24-02-2005 22:18									#8
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DP

	24-02-2005 23:12									#9
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I don't think we need the HBR that much - we will produce war chariots with the smae stats as horsemen

I have never used MSN but I have account on hotmail. I've used Yahoo messenger some time ago. I'm using ICQ all day long and when there is a turn to be played I'm in the IRC when possible (on apolyton server) - if someone wants to join me and play the turn together.

	24-02-2005 23:48									#10
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yes, but it gives us the option of using horses and saving our GA. It is always a useful option. I would understand if we wanted to change the deal, reading something like this:

BOH: BW+WC
Us: Wheel and CB

	25-02-2005 00:37									#11
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quote: Greetings to the Great People of Conquest we would like to offer our hand in an offer of peace anad trade, but unfortunatly, we shall have pottery shortly, as it was the first tech we researched. However, we would like to offer another proposal: we woould like to trade to you Ceremonnial Burial and some gold for Warrior Code. We would also like to talk abouot future tech plans, via either PM or IRC Team AM

If no one objects in 15 minutes, I am sending this to BOH.

	25-02-2005 00:59									#12
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Sent to paddy, Bongo, and Chrisius

	25-02-2005 01:32									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Dear Ambassador, We thank you on your prompt reply. I shall report your proposal to our Great Khan and get back to you as soon as possible. Please note however that the communication will be far easier and the negotiations much smoother if you give us msn or yahoo or some other contact. Regards Ljube Horde Ambassador

My response (not sent yet)

quote: (this is aa purely personal point) The only prgrams that I can us on this laptop are IRC, email, and PM. the other point is that I don't have any authority what so ever, as everything is debated in our team, so you would have to wait in any case. And I'm not an ambassador, I'm just the local Dogs body... ormuzd could use MSN, but the saame reestrictions would apply there as well.

Again, 15 minutes...

	25-02-2005 03:07									#14
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From Bongo/BOH

quote: You counteroffer is interesting and we are currently debating it in our forum. For future reference, allow me to add that Ljube-ljcvetko is our chief-diplomat so future diplomatic contact should usually be directed towards him

at this rate I'll be an emperor in no time...

	25-02-2005 22:25									#15
	Full PM-box? Change here!

From the horde:

quote: Dear neighbours, We understand your reluctance to trade your ceremonial burial for our pottery because you have already invested much research in pottery and don't want to waste that research in a tech for tech deal. However, warrior code and ceremonial burial are not technologies at the same level of importance. If you wish our horde to agree to such a trade, you must offer an appropriate amount of money as compensation. The Horde has rejected your offer of ceremonial burial and made a new offer: warrior code. We would like you to evaluate the appropriate price for the tech, because we don't have access to your treasury and don't know your financial capabilities. We are open to all suggestions. Deals involving future tech development, discounts on techs and coordinated research are all possible.

"...A message as warm and as human as a thrown knife." That is a quote from a discworld novel. Guess who said it...



The problem here is that now we have to quantify how much we give them, which is why i wanted to send a definate offer to them in the first turn. The most that we should offer is twenty gold, but even then I would not bother, as it would be better to research it ourselves. What we should do is offer them 10 gold and offer them another deal as well, such as BW from us plus gold for the Wheel, which would suit both our short term aim (spears and protection from an archer rush) and our long term aim (WCs).

What do you lot think?

	26-02-2005 11:59									#16
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I have expected they will say how much gold will they need. But the Horde returned the ball back to us.

I like your idea about the BW-Wheel deal. Currently we don't have much gold and every additional tech researched delays our SoZ.

	26-02-2005 15:25									#17
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

So what is it that you want me to draft up? a proposal for WC:CB+15gold, or for BW+gold:Wheel?

	26-02-2005 15:36									#18
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I think we should try CB+15 gold for WC. If they don't accept it we can propose BW but I'd like to not let them know in advance what we are going to research next.

We may ask them what are they researching now in order to make some long term agreement. I guess they are researching Alphabet but it is possible they have gone for the IW too.

	26-02-2005 16:14									#19
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To the Horde

quote: Dear neighbours, with regards to you offer RE: Warrior Code, we would like to offer Ceremonnial burial and 15 gold for the tech. We will take 4 turns, or we could pay in installments as of next turn.

Addendum:

quote: We would like to point out to you that if you were to accept this deal, we would also like to offer another deal, upon the completion of this trade. we would like to trade Bronze Working and another (20 gold?) for the Wheel.

again, please comment...

	26-02-2005 16:40									#20
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quote: I just checked the tech cost, and it would be cheaper for us to buy the tech so long as we pay less than 22 gold. and the wheel would cost 100 beakers, so long as no one knows that tech...whereas BW would cost 75 gold if no one knows it...so we shouold pay 25 gold for that...

Tech formula is now posted in the intelligence thread

	26-02-2005 19:01									#21
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sent the original message, left the addendum out.

	26-02-2005 23:19									#22
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thank you for sending the message

Let's wait to their response and than decide what will be our next offer to them. I'd like to take the alphabet to allow us faster movement towards Math and SoZ

	27-02-2005 01:07									#23
	Inflate your Upload Space

If acceptable, I shall send it in 15 minutes.

quote: Dearest Neighbours, we have a request, with regards to the possible exploratioon routes foor Grog. We do not wish to either anger or annoy you, so therefore we are asking you if the route that we wish to take is OK with you. We wish to move Grog 9666, so that we do not enter you cultural borders, although we will end up adjacent to othe borders. We hopoe thaat you will find this acceptable. Team AM

	28-02-2005 02:47									#24
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quote: Dear neighbours, We find your proposal CB+15 gold for our WC acceptable. We would like you to pay us in turn instalments, 3 every year. As for the proposed route of your grog, well, you can understand how uneasy the citizens of one of our cities feel about this particular route. Indeed, some of our more aggressive elders are already calling for a full mobilisation of our numerous armies for war if needed. However, I don't think that will be necessary. We can propose a different route to you, which will avoid being too close to our borders. We suggest you move: 3666. This route will be at sufficient distance from our settlements and won't cause too much alarm among our populace. We thank you for a fair trade, and understanding in these matters regarding the movement of your warrior. Best Regards Ljube Horde Ambassador

Very reasonable I have no qualms what so ever about doing what they asked.

	28-02-2005 17:44									#25
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quote: We are very disappointed to see you have chosen to ignore our suggestions regarding the safe passage of your warrior near our land. Your warrior has moved toward our cities and we perceive this aggressive movement as a real threat. In view of your hostile attitude towards us and the threat your warrior poses to our cities, we have no choice but to suspend our agreed tech trade until your warrior returns to the path we proposed - the path of peace.

Now, seeing as how the previous email was sent after we had played the 3700BC save, and we have not moved since, I am inclined to say that the have slight scizophrenic tendencies. One point what we have done is OK, what we have done is an act of war...They're nutters, I tells ya...

	28-02-2005 22:46									#26
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If it was to me I could answer so that the war would start immediately. That's why I don't want to be a diplomat, ambassador or whatever like this

	28-02-2005 23:13									#27
	Full PM-box? Change here!

What!! You want war??

Please, but we can oonly build warrirs, and could oonly start too build spears in 8 turns. we would get crushed...I'll write aa letter to the mimmediately...

	28-02-2005 23:33									#28
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quote: Dear Neighbours, i'm sorry if you are anxious. We shall move Grog 3666, as you indicated was acceptable in your oorriginal message. We did not mean too anger you, or proke you into war. Team AM

	28-02-2005 23:42									#29
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NO, I don't want. But I hate this kind of overplaying the role

	01-03-2005 02:34									#30
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quote: Dear Neighbours, We have moved Grog away from your cities, as you asked us to. I would like to apologise again for any tensions we may have caused. We have moved Grog 3, so he is not going to be a problem. We hope that the Warrior code for Ceremonial burial is still on, and we have sent Ceremonial burial and three gold this turn, and we can send another 12 gold next turn. And, finally, we would like to offer another trade, to help both of our teams. We would like to trade The Wheel for Bronze Working and 15 gold. Hope you accept our apologies. Team AM