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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
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McMeadows says:
g'day...
McMeadows says:
let's get the issue on the border sorted out
Chris says:
hello
McMeadows says:
we both planned a city close to it
Paddy says:
shall we start an official chat for recording? or keep this a light unofficail chat
snoopy369 says:
official
snoopy369 says:
i need to download the pic
Chris says:
hello
Paddy says:
done
snoopy369 says:
or can you just send it to me?
snoopy369 says:
take longer to check my mail
Paddy says:
loading now
Paddy says:
ok so do we all have the pic open
Chris says:
i have
snoopy369 says:
mcm and I are going to talk about it for a sec
snoopy369 says:
please wait
Paddy says:
Chris says:
ok
Chris says:
Chris says:
snoopy369 says:
Can you possibly make a bigger pic?
snoopy369 says:
this one doesn't show enough for the discussion to be useful ...
Paddy says:
why?
snoopy369 says:
well, first off, it doesn't show the southern regions
Paddy says:
well you can open your save and use the pic as a refernece point old chap3
snoopy369 says:
and second off, for me to be able to make a fair suggestion, one thing i need to know is where the rest of the territory is
snoopy369 says:
particularly your territory
Chris says:
dont see the need really we both rub close in the north
snoopy369 says:
we did allow you to look at ours
Paddy says:
yes indeed you have
Paddy says:
hmmm
Paddy says:
another pic will take some time
snoopy369 says:
i have a guess as to where you started etc., but a more specific answer would help me make a fairer suggestion
Paddy says:
can we not use that for this chat
Chris says:
to the south is another team for us both but the Porkers are closer to us than DR are to you
snoopy369 says:
really
snoopy369 says:
that surprises me, given how close DR is to us
snoopy369 says:
must have packed this map tightly
Paddy says:
yeah me tioo
Chris says:
indeed
Chris says:
and we have coast close to our west
snoopy369 says:
as do we on the east
snoopy369 says:
but again this is why i need the full map
Chris says:
of our territory and yours
Chris says:
or are you talking about sharing entire maps
snoopy369 says:
well, i don't care about the entire map
Chris says:
im not sure we should share entire maps at this stage
snoopy369 says:
although i suspect there is a reasonable agreement to be made about entire maps
snoopy369 says:
but the point is the territories
snoopy369 says:
we agreed to let you map our territory so there would be a full map, so i think it is fair to allow us your portion of such
Paddy says:
working on a bigger amp
snoopy369 says:
no prob
Chris says:
isnt sharing the whole map against the rules ?
snoopy369 says:
no
snoopy369 says:
we have mapmaking
Paddy says:
not at this stage
Chris says:
the land between us is known to us both
Paddy says:
a dg rule
snoopy369 says:
absolutely not, chris
snoopy369 says:
we had a treaty until 5 turns ago that we not go west
snoopy369 says:
it is not the between that we want, it is the territory around your lands that we need
McMeadows says:
isn't MM good ebnopugh for sharing?
snoopy369 says:
Chris says:
not sure what rules did we agree on in the set up
snoopy369 says:
mapmaking = map sharing
Paddy says:
indeed
snoopy369 says:
can't do it physically in game of course
Chris says:
i thought maops was not to be shared till later
snoopy369 says:
didn't mod it as such
snoopy369 says:
nope, that's iron civer rules
snoopy369 says:
quickly squashed the folk who wanted that
snoopy369 says:
(lol)rather
Chris says:
I dont see why you cant send a scout over to us now
snoopy369 says:
would take too much time
Chris says:
but of course a map is needed now
snoopy369 says:
and we can't make scouts
Chris says:
well a warrior would suffice
snoopy369 says:
anywho it would take weeks
snoopy369 says:
no reason for two allies not to just do it the faster way is it?
Chris says:
yes but how allied are we ?
Chris says:
at the moment we are tech partners
snoopy369 says:
I suppose you should answer that question, as i think you have belief we are less allied than I had been led to believe ...
Chris says:
you obviously want a map to see if were cheating you,, which i understand
snoopy369 says:
not true
snoopy369 says:
i don't assume you're cheating
Chris says:
no i would like us to become more allied
snoopy369 says:
just that we might have different opinions on fairness
Chris says:
but i was unaware we were allied at this tiome
Chris says:
in all matters
Paddy says:
back again happy people
snoopy369 says:
snoopy369 says:
Chris, i think that Paddy and I at least act like we're fairly good allies overall
snoopy369 says:
tho you'd have to ask Paddy for his impression
Chris says:
thats cool
Paddy says:
im'd snopop, emailed McM and Chris
Paddy says:
hehe
Chris says:
i want us to forge a stronger alliance
snoopy369 says:
Paddy says:
what did I miss
Chris says:
nothing to worry over
snoopy369 says:
eh, just chris and I having a nice discussion
snoopy369 says:
almost done now
snoopy369 says:
you have a slow upload speed my friend
snoopy369 says:
but it's done
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
ok, back to our private chat rooms for 2 mins then
snoopy369 says:
hmm is the city next to the ivory your capital then?
snoopy369 says:
as you took off names
Chris says:
not yet
Paddy says:
sorry I was rushing to load the save and all
Paddy says:
yes
snoopy369 says:
rofl
Paddy says:
thanks
snoopy369 says:
McMeadows has left the conversation.
Paddy says:
was playing anotyher pbem 3
Paddy says:
bye bye Mac
Paddy says:
Snoop as you can see, you see more of our side here then we do of yours yet
snoopy369 says:
yessir
snoopy369 says:
well, the mountain on the NE, about 2 squares east of that is the ocean, if i read it right
snoopy369 says:
indeed 2 squares precisely
snoopy369 says:
it heads N directly as far as we can tell, and SE from that
snoopy369 says:
i would note tho that DR is closer to us than AM, at least in terms of distance from capital to nearest settled territory
Chris says:
i was talking capitol to capitol
snoopy369 says:
possible, i don't see AM's capital
Paddy says:
indeed
McMeadows has been added to the conversation.
snoopy369 says:
lo
Chris says:
well its the nearest city they have to us
snoopy369 says:
ahh
McMeadows says:
got disconnected
snoopy369 says:
anyway, they are about the same distance
McMeadows says:
I thought DR was scloser to us
snoopy369 says:
about the same, i think
Paddy says:
I would like to see a trade of full maps at some stage soon
Chris says:
nope Dr is a bit further from you capitol to capitol
snoopy369 says:
tho i don't know AM's distance
snoopy369 says:
but anywho
Chris says:
we basically want one more good city on the river
Paddy says:
and Snoop, we discussed deserts previously, as you can see we have also had to suck up some desert
Chris says:
for good core growth
Paddy says:
it is definitly a good river for both of our nations
snoopy369 says:
The line, as you drew it, is too far east for us, i will say that.
Chris says:
you can see ankh morpaks border in the bottom right of the pic
snoopy369 says:
McM and I are discussing what alternatives we can offer
snoopy369 says:
yessir i do
Paddy says:
thanks, we look forward to your ideas and thoughts
McMeadows says:
the white circle is not the city we planned
Paddy says:
indeed
snoopy369 says:
i understand how the map is drawn
Paddy says:
my suggestion
McMeadows says:
we planned it 1 from that position
Paddy says:
as I wrote the map, I placed our suggestion
McMeadows says:
bad choice for us
McMeadows says:
too close to B-52's (founded today) and AbbA
Paddy says:
where is b52's then plerase
Paddy says:
you have all of our information
Paddy says:
snoopy369 says:
774 from our capital
Chris says:
you have two untapped rivers in grass areas which we have none of
McMeadows says:
You have plenty of floodplains
Chris says:
one to your East and one to your North
snoopy369 says:
McM and i need to discuss this before we get any further
Paddy says:
indeed
Chris says:
we onlty want one more river city near our core
Chris says:
not much to ask
Chris says:
on the north coast
Chris says:
sorry your river on the north coast
McMeadows has left the conversation.
McMeadows has been added to the conversation.
Chris says:
ok i know your thinking but i have a suggestion
Chris says:
we need that river city for growth
McMeadows says:
come on mate
snoopy369 says:
wait for us pls
Chris says:
so why not alter the border to a bendy one
McMeadows says:
that's a weak argument
snoopy369 says:
*wait
snoopy369 says:
Chris says:
rathr than a straight line
snoopy369 says:
we shall discuss in a sec
Chris says:
you have time to come back to us on this ?
snoopy369 says:
we are discussing
snoopy369 says:
please be patient
Chris says:
why not come back at a later time
snoopy369 says:
we will be done shortly
Paddy says:
tx
snoopy369 says:
ok i am sending our countersuggestion to ya
Chris says:
ok
snoopy369 says:
the way it works - the purple line i drew is my suggestion, and the red + white dots are cities or potential cities
snoopy369 says:
i do it this complexly because i want to show you why i think mine is reasonable
McMeadows says:
ours
snoopy369 says:
ah yes
McMeadows says:
haha
snoopy369 says:
ours sorry, i'm not good with plural pronouns
McMeadows says:
McMeadows says:
no worries
Paddy says:
so is the pink the border you propose
snoopy369 says:
snoopy369 says:
south of there, we don't care, so it didn't go as far down
snoopy369 says:
you can go east of it beyond that hill
Paddy says:
you moved two lines our way.... hmmm
Chris says:
thats because south of there is not core land
McMeadows says:
Piggy pink,.. but that's just a tease..
snoopy369 says:
well yes
snoopy369 says:
i moved 1 directly west, essentially
Chris says:
yes i see
Chris says:
its not good for us
Chris says:
but we will have to discuss
snoopy369 says:
The reason for the red and white dots ...
snoopy369 says:
count them
McMeadows says:
Mate, you're not having the proper focus here
Chris says:
we could say the same
snoopy369 says:
red dots = 13 cities, white dots = 10 cities
snoopy369 says:
and i don't know your far west
Chris says:
coast like your east
snoopy369 says:
whereas we go precisely 1 square more beyond to the east
Paddy has left the conversation.
snoopy369 says:
(roughly)
Chris says:
well i think we will still want to build on the red dot on Paddys pic
snoopy369 says:
the purple line is 4 directly east from your capital and 3.5 directly west from ours
snoopy369 says:
i don't think the red dot will work, chris
snoopy369 says:
it's too close
McMeadows says:
we're essentially talking about the placement of 1 city.
1 that is 5 tiles from our capital for us
There are so many better options for the hordes to settle now
Paddy has been added to the conversation.
snoopy369 says:
Chris, you have to see that the spot you suggest is too close to our territory, and we have too little territory beyond that
Chris says:
the purple line is four from both capitols actually
snoopy369 says:
nop
snoopy369 says:
well, close enough
snoopy369 says:
but that is my ponit
snoopy369 says:
purple line is roughly equidistant
snoopy369 says:
and, it allows you still quite a bit more cities than it allows us
Chris says:
its really not my call here and now so like i said a while ago we should revisit this
snoopy369 says:
it is unlikely we will get more than 10 or 11 cities - 12 at the most if we crimp
snoopy369 says:
13 is easy to see for you, and probably more than that
Paddy says:
you like the purple, I like green.....
and that blue line sits right there in the middle
snoopy369 says:
no
snoopy369 says:
the blue line is not acceptable either .. .the purple as chris says is equidistant
snoopy369 says:
blue would eliminate both of our cities, and that's a waste to the alliance
Chris says:
what would be wrong with a shaped border ???
snoopy369 says:
the purple is equidistant, allows you 25% more cities than us
snoopy369 says:
because there's nothing useful to shape it around
snoopy369 says:
we're not giving you the red city, chris
Chris says:
why not give us that river but come further west above and below
snoopy369 says:
it's 1 square from where our city is going to be
snoopy369 says:
and below is totally worthless to us
snoopy369 says:
look, you have a lot better places to put cities than there
Chris says:
actually we were both wrong before its 4 from you and 3.5 from us
snoopy369 says:
and you have 100% access to irrigation from the river, we guarantee you on that
Chris says:
so youre asking rather too much
snoopy369 says:
yessir that's the closest to equidistant possible as we're an odd number away
Chris says:
so we have to do things your way ?
Chris says:
i dont see much give and take on the Bards side
snoopy369 says:
Insomuch as i counteroffered an offer far too close to us with a middle offer, yes
snoopy369 says:
we have given already by not going further west ...
snoopy369 says:
I don't see why you care so much about this city
snoopy369 says:
it is further from your capital than most of the area you haven't settled
Chris says:
as we have by not going further east
snoopy369 says:
you went 3 squares from us and 4.5 from you, initially
snoopy369 says:
that is rather far east. I could make a similar suggestion... but I didn't. That is what I mean by a middle offer
Chris says:
I correct you
Chris says:
we did not go anywhere it was as you say a suggestion
snoopy369 says:
yessir
snoopy369 says:
we have not gone anywhere either
snoopy369 says:
i use the words incorrectly, perhaps
snoopy369 says:
but why are you insistent on expanding towards us?
snoopy369 says:
we have *no* room other than west, and north, and that is how we are expanding
snoopy369 says:
you have a ton of room north, and west, in addition to east
Chris says:
Not a ton at all snoop
snoopy369 says:
far more than ours, tho
Chris says:
we have perhaps a little more than yourselves
snoopy369 says:
your radius is at least 1 greater than ours
Chris says:
oh no
snoopy369 says:
and this is my point
snoopy369 says:
we have a radius of about 3
snoopy369 says:
ie 3 north from our capitol, 4th is water
snoopy369 says:
3 east, 4th is water
snoopy369 says:
etc.
Chris says:
this all comes down to cores really
Chris says:
not overall distances
snoopy369 says:
the total land area of the region I described as being yours, is far more than the land area of the area i describe as being ours
snoopy369 says:
and the land quality is roughly equal
Chris says:
lets get away from total land areas
snoopy369 says:
no, chris, this is the point for us
snoopy369 says:
we have not enough land area
Chris says:
im looking at core cities
snoopy369 says:
we cannot give you more land area
Chris says:
hold on a moment and let me type a response
Chris says:
As i have said I cant accept this here and now, i see some of your points but i must report to the Horde before i can agree anything
Paddy says:
may we now all take a two minute break
remembering the marvelous tech alliance that has benefited both of our nations
also remembering the wonderful benefit we recieved with the settler that became Bloodview
snoopy369 says:
okay
Chris says:
You have pushed the border closer to us and i dont think we will accept that, so this will need time to be discussed
snoopy369 says:
Just realize this - even with my purple line, there is about 50% more land area in your half than in ours
Chris says:
I must point out to you that you are not actually giving us anything are you, we are afterall trying to reach a mutual agreement rather than receive our instructions
snoopy369 says:
I'm going to not respond and take the break paddy wants
Chris says:
ok
snoopy369 says:
we shall resume in several minutes
Chris says:
Im typing my response
Paddy says:
thank you all
snoopy369 says:
snoopy369 has left the conversation.
McMeadows says:
Chris,
You're focussed on "giving" and taking, whereas nothing has gone either side yet. In our point of view it seems reasonable for us to settle only 5 squares from our capital, in between two of our cities,
Paddy says:
1 moment
Paddy says:
and where be Snoop?
snoopy369 has been added to the conversation.
McMeadows says:
here he is
Paddy says:
ok, may we re=tart
McMeadows says:
good idea I think
Paddy says:
Gentlemen of the Grand Alliance
I hereby would like to state that we have the makings of a strong border that will develop over many generations
Each side has presented clear and decisive reasons for their individual cases
Paddy says:
It is noted here that team Euphorica has a major issue, as you have explained, on your far coast.
ie, that the water is two tiles away
While as you know we can not see that far at this time, we fully accept this information as true and correct
Paddy says:
Lord Snoopy, your map definitly has a great deal of potential, and it does us good to meet with you both to get this matter settled
snoopy369 says:
Chris says:
Me and Paddy are thinking we might be prepared to take a leap of faith here and now
Paddy says:
Now, with the understanding that we be allies, friends, and very early in a very long game, I believe we can come to an agreement soon
Chris says:
faith in that if we show our willingness to help a friend and an ally that will be repaid in loyalty and long term trust
snoopy369 says:
Do not doubt our trust
Paddy says:
indeed
snoopy369 says:
nor our friendship
Paddy says:
thank you
Chris says:
what would the Pink line be worth to the Euphoricans , and im not talking money!! maybe a NAP between us would serve to secure the minds of the horde at large
snoopy369 says:
I would hope we are beyond a nonagression pact!
snoopy369 says:
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
our friendship is strong
Chris says:
well so would i but its never been established as it
Chris says:
officially
snoopy369 says:
I think it is understood.
Chris says:
understood is not written is it
Chris says:
not in the legislation books
snoopy369 says:
If a written agreement is necessary, then so be it, but I think we are beyond such formalities
snoopy369 says:
for such a simple thing
Chris says:
formalities are to protect us both
Chris says:
you should know that as per our tech agreement
snoopy369 says:
oh yes, a tech agreement is always in writing
snoopy369 says:
it is a very complex document
Chris says:
what would you suggest
snoopy369 says:
We shall not attack you at least as long as our tech agreement is in force; once it is cancelled we shall assume no war but need re-ratify a proper pact
snoopy369 says:
I think i can go that far without consulting the powers that be
snoopy369 says:
Chris says:
I think we need to make sure this border issue never has the potential to cause us grief in the future
Chris says:
thats short sighted in my opinion
Paddy says:
Yes, that was why I had a three lined border
snoopy369 says:
i assumed the same 3 lines apply
snoopy369 says:
(one line to the east and west)
snoopy369 says:
of 'non settling on these squares'
snoopy369 says:
without discussion first
Chris says:
you have just benefitted tremendously via the tech agreement
snoopy369 says:
We believe the current tech agreement was at your suggestion?
Chris says:
indeed it was as i said i want to foster long term trust and friendship
Chris says:
so we give a little to get us rolling
snoopy369 says:
Chris says:
I believe you would agree it was a new approach from the horde ??
snoopy369 says:
we agree with long term trust and friendship
snoopy369 says:
and we think both will gain from our friendship
Chris says:
my thoughts are this: the tech agreement has a get out clause that really says when were happy with what weve got were off
Chris says:
swo lets ratify that and make a NAP formal too
snoopy369 says:
?
snoopy369 says:
it has an out clause, as it must
Chris says:
lets lose the get out clause for the tech deal
Chris says:
make it stronger
snoopy369 says:
this game has only one winner sir ... we must assume at some point we will no longer be friends
snoopy369 says:
hopefully in the far far future
Chris says:
why if we truly want to be allies then why do we need a get out clause
snoopy369 says:
as i said above
snoopy369 says:
at some point it will be necessary, as we will be the two remaining civs if we are lucky and successful
Chris says:
Ah does a allied victory not picture in your mind
snoopy369 says:
It is not possible in civ
snoopy369 says:
not without a predetermined game setup
Chris says:
no not as far as the game mechanics go
snoopy369 says:
We hope to be the last two civs in this game
Chris says:
but were human and can roleplay over the mechanics
Paddy says:
indeed
Chris says:
and so do we and if so we would hope for a mutual victory
Chris says:
if you could get your head around the concept
Paddy says:
a new map is under construction
snoopy369 says:
I believe in a strong alliance, sir, and in thousands of years of cooperation
snoopy369 says:
but nonetheless this game can only have one winner.
Chris says:
I would suggest changing from a NAP to a MPP at nationalism
snoopy369 says:
If this game goes that far, we would probably agree to it
snoopy369 says:
although i doubt that strongly
Chris says:
the game will only have one winner regards points yes , but do we have to stand and shoot at each other just because weve killed all the others
snoopy369 says:
having 4 civs left by the middle of next era is strongly unlikely
snoopy369 says:
We wouldn't necessarily shoot each other
Chris says:
I suppose its a bridge to cross much later
snoopy369 says:
but i think it is silly to play the game for several years until AD 2100 ...
snoopy369 says:
but yes this will not be for months
Chris says:
indeed if only us two left we could agree an ending between us i think
Chris says:
based on pointsetc
Paddy says:
may we discuss that another day please
Paddy says:
some have been up all night awaiting the save
snoopy369 says:
Paddy says:
9am here
snoopy369 says:
hehe
Chris says:
and others should be in bed too
snoopy369 says:
well i'm waiting for your file to upload
snoopy369 says:
download*
Paddy says:
as discussed
no building past the blue lines
McMeadows says:
received
McMeadows says:
save in 10 mins
Paddy says:
you ??? not I
snoopy369 says:
Paddy says:
tx
Paddy says:
ok, we all have the pic
snoopy369 says:
excepting me
Paddy says:
I have one pioint to discuss
Chris says:
still loading
snoopy369 says:
try resending to me pls paddy
Chris says:
and me
Paddy says:
resent to snoop
snoopy369 says:
Paddy says:
resending to Chris
snoopy369 says:
ah yes this is the agreement as i see it
Paddy says:
one mo
snoopy369 says:
altho as i said, south of the hills you may expand east a bit more if you like
snoopy369 says:
we will likely not expand south of the desert unless/until DR is gone
Paddy says:
ok
Paddy says:
now my point
you want to build 7,7,8 from Metalica on the river
I propose you build it 7,8,8 in the black
that is then neither side build on the blue line
snoopy369 says:
the blue line i interpret differently from you?
snoopy369 says:
i interpret it as only the single vertical line of squares
snoopy369 says:
chevrons, if you will
McMeadows says:
We were to build 788
Paddy says:
ok, excellent
snoopy369 says:
but still i want to make sure this idea is clear
McMeadows says:
488 sorry
Paddy says:
I will resend with a pic
snoopy369 says:
nah
snoopy369 says:
488 indeed which is identical to 778
Paddy says:
4 8 8 is on the blue line
Paddy says:
indeed
snoopy369 says:
i have basically a vertical row of 3 squares
snoopy369 says:
seeing each vertical row as only the diamonds touching on the tips
McMeadows says:
I'm too tiresd to focus
snoopy369 says:
ie 778 is not on the line, but touching it
Chris says:
at 788 we could agree
Paddy says:
indeed on the line - touchingb same thing
snoopy369 says:
same as if you chose 889 from your current spot
snoopy369 says:
why? that wastes a lot more squares
snoopy369 says:
as i define it, that means that no cities will be settled within the city radius of another cit
snoopy369 says:
city*
Paddy says:
indeed, but your map did not place us at 889
snoopy369 says:
oh, i was just guessing at city places
Paddy says:
and I would like a clean border
snoopy369 says:
it was just an example of how you have more area than us
Paddy says:
no not at all
Chris says:
at 788 your city wont encroach on our existing city radius
McMeadows says:
788 it is
Paddy says:
the blue line has not moved from your mao to ours
snoopy369 says:
yessir i understand
McMeadows says:
it's difficcult without BC-52 on the map
snoopy369 says:
it rather wastes space tho
Paddy says:
ahhh indeed
just where is b52
snoopy369 says:
as i said - 774 from our capital
Paddy says:
1 no
Paddy says:
1moment
snoopy369 says:
in the square with 3 rivers on the borders
Paddy says:
still 2 tiles away
Chris says:
the grass
snoopy369 says:
gras yes
snoopy369 says:
grass*
snoopy369 says:
anywho
snoopy369 says:
i think we, being allies, should not waste squares as large as you suggest ... banning settling from 5 columns of squares is rather a lot
Paddy says:
Gentlemen, I f I may suggest, we are happy with the border, as presented, and I was being a tad stuck in the mud
you have a good point, and I stand down from my point
so then it is agreed that we can settle as you are along that blue linew if required?
Chris says:
its only on this one to stop it encroaching on our existing towns radius
snoopy369 says:
snoopy369 says:
we will consider 788 versus 778
snoopy369 says:
i am not sure how they are different in the long run to us
Paddy says:
thank you
Chris says:
thanks
Paddy says:
may we accept then at this stage that we have an agreement in good faith
Chris says:
well its best we both have made some concession
snoopy369 says:
sleep away yessir
Chris says:
easier to get approved
Chris says:
so this bit is done then
Paddy says:
Thank you all for this great effort in diplomacy
 Attachment: borderland iii.jpg
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Earthworm
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Underground in PNW
Nov 2004
time: 21:22
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Excelent job, Patty and Chris, that was some excelent negotiating.
BTW how much of our land/scouted land were they able to see in the map you sent over to them?
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Paddy the Scot
|
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
|
|
Chris says:
so we close this down now then
Chris says:
went well i thought
McMeadows says:
EU and BOH left
McMeadows says:
me 2
Snoopy says:
McMeadows says:
Happy to have the Babs involved and commited
Snoopy says:
yeh
Snoopy says:
i worry tho that they will start to feel like this is going to be us vs them once the LB/DR/AM problem is handled ...
Paddy says:
ok, so a short chat between us 4
Snoopy says:
and thus may cut loose and join LB
Chris says:
snoop you seem really concerned about us being at the DR front, is there a reason you would like to share with us ?
Snoopy says:
i almost hope LB jumps in ...
Snoopy says:
Oh, i just don't want to include LB until they have to
Snoopy says:
i don't REALLY Hope they jump in
Snoopy says:
and if you are included on the offensive, they will have to
Snoopy says:
we really won't need you
Snoopy says:
we are strong vs DR, and so is BAbylon
Snoopy says:
the three of us are the three military powers you must realize
Snoopy says:
DR will be wiped out with probably little to-do
Snoopy says:
so long as we beat them to their iron
Chris says:
sure but wed love to kick DR ass
Snoopy says:
oh undoubtedly
Paddy says:
must kill aqua....
Snoopy says:
nonetheless it is not in the interest of our alliance to force other powers to jump in
Paddy says:
must
Snoopy says:
you are playing your part
Chris says:
thanks
Snoopy says:
Chris, be a pal and hand Paddy his vicodin ...
Chris says:
Paddy says:
ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Paddy says:
killllllllll
Paddy says:
aqua........
Snoopy says:
(lol)
Paddy says:
ok, we will prepare a reserve force
McMeadows says:
I'm not all that sure DR will inflate that easily
Paddy says:
and move it down through the lands
Chris says:
Mc you happy with the tech issue now
McMeadows says:
I'm happy to have BOH prepare a raiding party as well
McMeadows says:
techs are fine now
Chris says:
honourably too
McMeadows says:
I agree with Snoop on laying low for now
Chris says:
beta does not know of our tech arrangement
McMeadows says:
Now we have element of suprise and back up
McMeadows says:
I know Beta doesn't and am happy we have solved it this way
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
yes
Chris says:
its all worked out rather well id say
McMeadows says:
haha... yes indeed CM,..
Snoopy says:
lol
Snoopy says:
just don't make them too paranoid
Snoopy says:
Seriously, how is AM going
Chris says:
plus we should get DR's mathe too
Snoopy says:
just between us and al
Snoopy says:
all*
McMeadows says:
I had a chat with AM
McMeadows says:
They're panicking
Chris says:
they should be
Chris says:
McMeadows says:
They were informing on wheter we could help them out
Chris says:
hahahaha
McMeadows says:
I tried to make them aware of our difficult situation
McMeadows says:
being in between DR and BOH
McMeadows says:
both strong nations, with lethal UU's
Snoopy says:
lo
Snoopy says:
lol*
Chris says:
Chris says:
poor poor bards stuck between two thorns like a rose
Snoopy says:
Chris says:
and DR are the greenfly
Snoopy says:
Snoopy says:
shall you complete AM soon then?
Paddy says:
we have a fine situation that can develop in several directions, as I stated earlier
at this time we have given them a major shock
Chris says:
ill hand over to Paddy for this
Paddy says:
3 raiding parties attacked them, as you saw in the battle reports thread
Paddy says:
we have destroyed one city, 1 of 5
Snoopy says:
yessir
Paddy says:
we currently threaten a further three
Snoopy says:
good
Snoopy says:
razing?
Snoopy says:
wow!
Chris says:
auto razed
Snoopy says:
oh lol
Paddy says:
1 was razed
Snoopy says:
we have to decide if we raze DR or not
Snoopy says:
the iron city certainly will be razed
Paddy says:
good
McMeadows says:
They're looking into getting some war chariots
Chris says:
AM are very weak
Snoopy says:
yeh i suggest cutting off their horses asap if you can
Paddy says:
we are happy for them
Snoopy says:
don't want them getting a GA
Chris says:
any info you can supply will be greatly appreciated
Snoopy says:
so you may or may not finish them off?
Paddy says:
it is our intent to take them down before this game finishes
Paddy says:
it may not be now
Paddy says:
we have diplomatic issues going back and forth
McMeadows says:
Paddy says:
they are quite funny people3.
Snoopy says:
ah
Snoopy says:
Why not finish them off?
Snoopy says:
seems like they are ripe for picking
Paddy says:
lots of begging
tyhen they threaten in the one message
McMeadows says:
They're commited in trying to keep the game going with just the 2 of the. I appreciate that
Paddy says:
we are commited to making this a good war
so in that we reevaluate at all steps
Chris says:
well snoopp we just keep falling about laughing in the wild boar most nights at the messages coming from them
Paddy says:
so do we
Paddy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
they write clangers
Paddy says:
and they threaten to post them publicly too
Chris says:
its hard to focus on war when your crying laughing so much
Paddy says:
so please be patient with us, as our hearts are that of warriors, not butchers
Snoopy says:
ah
Snoopy says:
well, a surviving-but-annoyed AM may be of concern to us
Chris says:
how so ?
Paddy says:
why
Snoopy says:
*points to another game we are playing between the three of us, sadly without the fourth who was eliminated early
Snoopy says:
Chris says:
pardon which game ? does it have anything to do with this one
Snoopy says:
altho a slightly different situation, not entirely so
Snoopy says:
you are the early eliminated one sir
Snoopy says:
that should bring paddy to mind
Chris says:
me
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
by arnelos
Snoopy says:
yessir
Snoopy says:
indede
Chris says:
oh that
Chris says:
that was a while ago
Snoopy says:
yessir
Chris says:
that was my own silly mistake
Snoopy says:
now I remind the court that in that game, I was within 1 city of elimination as well
Snoopy says:
but then was allowed to survive by a certain now-ally-of-our-great-nations in this DG
Chris says:
left me capitol unguarded
Snoopy says:
and now am poised to eliminate him entirely
Snoopy says:
well, along with a certain great ally
McMeadows says:
Hi all
Snoopy says:
but the lesson is learned
Snoopy says:
hi
McMeadows says:
ally reporting
Chris says:
sorry i dont follow
Snoopy says:
In EiF, Beta made war on me in the earli going
Snoopy says:
killed all but my capitol
Snoopy says:
and then mysteriously made peace with me
Snoopy says:
now, some thousands of years later
Snoopy says:
it is he who will be down soon in city count substantially
Chris says:
hahaha
Snoopy says:
altho some bad luck has slowed that down
Snoopy says:
it's mostly mr. big ally here doing the city eliminating
Snoopy says:
I am doing the forces tying up
McMeadows says:
not even me myself,... beta's abandoning himself
Snoopy says:
but anyway it is a cautionary tale
Chris says:
snoop do you remember the epic game with masuro
Snoopy says:
against harming an enemy nation seriously
Snoopy says:
oh yes
Snoopy says:
is it still going ??
Snoopy says:
it is very slow
Chris says:
yes its your turn
Snoopy says:
and not entirely due to me
Snoopy says:
ah i am playing turns now
Snoopy says:
so it shall get played then
Snoopy says:
but anywho
Paddy says:
gents
Snoopy says:
you get my point ?
Chris says:
indeed i do
Paddy says:
we will learn from your lesson
Paddy says:
thank you
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
so we have done good this day then?
new techs on their way
Snoopy says:
Chris says:
have we discussed tech coordination lately
Snoopy says:
hopefully DR doens't see Babs allied with us
Snoopy says:
CoL in some turns
Snoopy says:
some many turns atm due to gold problems
Chris says:
yes we have similar issues
Chris says:
but war footing is more important right now i believe
Snoopy says:
yessir
Chris says:
good i think were both entitled to a slow down under the circumstances
Chris says:
war is imminent for us all
Paddy says:
new era so close
Snoopy says:
yes only 3 techs away
Snoopy says:
once math and poly come
Snoopy says:
you should stop work entirely actually
Snoopy says:
or work on republic
Snoopy says:
but i suggest stop entirely for a bit
Snoopy says:
until math comes
Chris says:
that was out thought
Chris says:
we do republic slowly until war is settled
Chris says:
yes
Snoopy says:
okay that works out
Snoopy says:
we may be able to get CoL and one of the top techs
Snoopy says:
perhaps we suggest babs get the other top tech and we trade one for the other
Snoopy says:
constr/currency
Chris says:
are you guys planning on a switch to republic or monarchy ?
Chris says:
yes to the babs idea
Snoopy says:
oh that is unclear
Snoopy says:
depends on how quickly the war goes i would bet
Chris says:
we have not discussed which government as of yet
Chris says:
monarchy very good for large armies
Chris says:
republic better for tech
Paddy says:
how many turns do you have for CoL, I missed it before
Snoopy says:
oh i dunno
Snoopy says:
depends on choices we make
Snoopy says:
in terms of gold
Paddy says:
hmmm, ok
Snoopy says:
a while tho
Snoopy says:
15-20 turns probably?
Paddy says:
ok, well republic not able to be started till after col
McMeadows says:
12 with 0 gpt at the moment
Snoopy says:
oh yes
Snoopy says:
so just go to hardcore gold?
Paddy says:
Ok, we wil have the Horde Auditor General look into the coffers, and his balance sheets to see if we can help
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
it be our intent to be valued allies
Paddy says:
so you are 12 with 0 gold
Paddy says:
what would you be if you had 3gpt
Snoopy says:
if we are able to build an embassy in the desolate row ... we would be more easily able to know them and defeat them
McMeadows says:
at the moment indeed
Paddy says:
so what if you had 3gpt for reseach
Snoopy says:
I think 12 at this juncture may be fast enough, no?
Snoopy says:
it is unclear actually if we may go to a bit slower, to fund an embassy in DR
Paddy says:
may we discuss embassies in a moment
Snoopy says:
well it is rather relevant sir
Paddy says:
above I understood you could get CoL in 12 turns for no gold input
Snoopy says:
yessir
Snoopy says:
as i said, we are considering slowing that down, to get an embassy
Snoopy says:
30 gold in the next 4 turns, basically
Paddy says:
so could you do it faster if we gave gold
Paddy says:
ahhh
Paddy says:
so to what rate then
Snoopy says:
well, possibly just stopping for 3 turns, or to 10%
Snoopy says:
that would earn us the gold
Snoopy says:
so be 15 turns to col
Snoopy says:
or slightly less allowing for growth etc.
Paddy says:
ok
Snoopy says:
and if we can connect the road getting us luxuries
Paddy says:
road is coming
Snoopy says:
ye-
Snoopy says:
as soon as it is completed and lux exchanged we increase 10% automatically i would think
Paddy says:
well then we may have to help you with that emabssie
yet we would ask for some assistance
would like to dicuss you building AM embassy - we pay all costs, we get all screen shots
as a trade off we pay 1/3 of dr embassy
it must be clearly noted that the AM embassy is only an option at this time
Paddy says:
either way we want to help
Snoopy says:
oh hm
Snoopy says:
i'm sure we could do that ...
Snoopy says:
that would mean only a 2 turn slowdown on CoL
Snoopy says:
so you don't want AM embassy right away tho
Snoopy says:
you want it ... later, at your option
Chris says:
yes please snoop
Paddy says:
not right now for sure, maybe never
Snoopy says:
i am sure that could be arranged
Paddy says:
thank you
Paddy says:
more reasons why not a discussion for the Babs
Chris says:
chaps im going now, i have chores to do to keep the good lady sweet
McMeadows says:
McMeadows says:
enjoy
Paddy says:
Thanks Chris
Chris says:
ill leave the msn open and catch up later
Chris says:
bye
Paddy says:
bye
Paddy says:
Ok, I will have the Horde release 10 gold next turn to your people
Paddy says:
is that 1/3
Snoopy says:
ok
Snoopy says:
roughly
Snoopy says:
it's like 32-35 i think
Paddy says:
when can you confirm?
Snoopy says:
10 should be enough ... i'm not picky about a single gp or two
Paddy says:
37 gold for us to establish it
Paddy says:
will you be able to supply us with a copy of what you see
Paddy says:
12 gold approved from Horde
Snoopy says:
okie
McMeadows says:
city view?
Paddy says:
yes please
McMeadows says:
approved
Paddy says:
thank you
Paddy says:
a grand alliance we have
McMeadows says:
MSN helps to have a good discussion
Paddy says:
indeed it does
Paddy says:
ok, on the requirements that you would hve from us for this reserve force
Paddy says:
what are you looking for?
Snoopy says:
well
Snoopy says:
what is needed, is a force that has two options
Snoopy says:
1) attack LB if they join in
Snoopy says:
2) attack DR if the war goes poorly
Snoopy says:
i would say, swordsmen are fine
Snoopy says:
maybe some horsemen?
Snoopy says:
assuming you have horses
Paddy says:
we be Horde
Paddy says:
ok, sensible objectives
Snoopy says:
horsemen are nice because they can quickly move to stop an assault
Snoopy says:
if i were to describe the perfect reserve forcei
Snoopy says:
i'd say 3 horsemen and 4 swordsmen
Snoopy says:
(well the PERFECT one would be 20 horsemen and 40 swordsmen )
Paddy says:
they make pig people squeal
Paddy says:
interesting configuration
Paddy says:
perfect solution indeed
Snoopy says:
Snoopy says:
well, horsemen are mostly in case DR does something dumb
Paddy says:
yes
Snoopy says:
like sends a couple of archers out hoping to catch unawares
Snoopy says:
we will be well protected from that
Paddy says:
yes
Snoopy says:
but yet, another game reminds me of how poor lady luck can be to me sometimes =/
Paddy says:
so the DR iron is still not connected then
Paddy says:
lady luck can have bad days too
Paddy says:
she cheap drunk like rest of us
Snoopy says:
oh it is not even started yet
Paddy says:
good
Snoopy says:
we were sitting on it until 2 turns ago or somesuch
Snoopy says:
we are watching it with an eagle eye
Paddy says:
yes, I see their new border
Paddy says:
thank you for your wonderful map
McMeadows says:
Paddy says:
The Red Guard Operations people are most chuffed
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
I hope that you are aware of the commitment the Horde has to your Nation
McMeadows says:
We need to wait 1 turn with the stack to have the extra archer catch up
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Paddy says:
better than having him picked off
McMeadows says:
We are aware of Paddy th Scot being a man of his word. Him being a member of the Horde makes the horde most trustworthy
Paddy says:
My people have the hearts of Warriors
Paddy says:
They are most generous to their friends
most deadly to their foe
Snoopy says:
and you have the mind of a khan
Paddy says:
We are glad you understand the situation with the War on AM
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
We appreciatte your points on the Babylonians
Snoopy says:
we would have appreciated a bit of notice so we could be prepared, but we understand
Snoopy says:
it looks like it should go well for you
Snoopy says:
do they have horses?
Paddy says:
yes
Paddy says:
The Babylonians have told us quite openly that they see an alliance with the Horde will finish the moment they consider Desolation Row to be destryed for good, or broken to a point of no return.
Snoopy says:
ah
Snoopy says:
well, once AM and DR are gone, it is us two, LB, and Babs
Snoopy says:
so at a minimum we will not be at a numerical disadvantage
Paddy says:
indeed
Snoopy says:
1889 and Beta get along very well, so it is not unreasonable for them to ally
Paddy says:
Lost Boys, they be well named
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
Horde is must unsure of truth of Babylonians
Snoopy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
I accept their word, but many in Horde see them as dangerous
Snoopy says:
ATM, they are the third strongest nation
Snoopy says:
for that reason if no other, i am not horribly concerned about them
Paddy says:
Sage of Horde wanted to attend summit to administer ancient rites of snake down Babylonians throat
he lives, he truthful
he die, too bad
Snoopy says:
also, LB will be more of a concern to them than either of us i suspect, in terms of geopolitical situation
Snoopy says:
hehe
Paddy says:
yes
Snoopy says:
tis possible we can convince them to join us against LB first
Paddy says:
Soothsayer of Horde has several long and meaningful name for Babylonians
Paddy says:
I believe it would be good to have them in the DR battle
Paddy says:
at least attend
Paddy says:
that should bring LB in
Snoopy says:
it may indeed
Paddy says:
hopefully on our side
Snoopy says:
depends on who is running the show there
Paddy says:
otherwise to bad for LB
Snoopy says:
unlikely for LB to be on our side
Snoopy says:
only if they are pretty dumb IMO
Paddy says:
1889 may want to survive
Paddy says:
hehe
Snoopy says:
bandwagonning cannot help them at this point
Paddy says:
well not much hope for them on DR's side
Snoopy says:
honestly i am surprised to find babylon on our side
Snoopy says:
Not necessarily
Snoopy says:
DR can win this, if they connect their iron
Snoopy says:
and get their immortals
Snoopy says:
and get their GA
Paddy says:
ahhh but surely not against 3 nations
Snoopy says:
all it would take, is LB delaying babs long enough, and AM realizing they need to stop *us*
Snoopy says:
I don't know ...
Paddy says:
AM, they have issues matey
Snoopy says:
on the defensive, with LB and AM support
Snoopy says:
they could, i think
Snoopy says:
oh of course
Snoopy says:
but stil
Snoopy says:
it is 6-7 turns from our nation to theirs
Snoopy says:
meaning we are 6-7 turns behind them on production
Paddy says:
yes
Snoopy says:
as well as being unable to recover troop strength
Snoopy says:
this era is not an offensive era
Paddy says:
yes, but in that we have 3 nations
Snoopy says:
and if they have *the* superior unit ...
Paddy says:
cordinated we can win
Snoopy says:
i'm just saying if they have 3 as well
Snoopy says:
i think we'll win
Snoopy says:
because mostly i think this iron cut off will work
Snoopy says:
as long as that works, we win *easily
Snoopy says:
only problem is if they stop it
Paddy says:
their superior unit has only 1 attack more than our swords
Snoopy says:
we can probably win by guerilla tactics at minimum
Snoopy says:
oh yes, but it's a big deal, imo
Paddy says:
yes keep the iron and we win
Snoopy says:
and GA also ...
Snoopy says:
Snoopy says:
*easily
Paddy says:
indeed
Snoopy says:
i think we could still win without it
Snoopy says:
but
Snoopy says:
it would be harder
Paddy says:
thus I am happy you are after their iron, thus why happy to help with gold and troops
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
better them without iron
Paddy says:
of we loose a lot of troops, we could find babylonian and carth - LB's troops all over us
Paddy says:
not pretty
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
regarding AM, so understood your point on other game
if we do not take them out, we will keep a razor at their throats, so as to take them out when / if required
Paddy says:
there will be no pockets
Snoopy says:
ok
Paddy says:
I do not see us allowing them to ever grow again
Snoopy says:
Paddy says:
Well chaps, do we have anything not covered?
Snoopy says:
i think we are done for the moment
Paddy says:
Thank you both for this extra chat
Snoopy says:
thank you as well
Snoopy says:
and on McM's behalf as he is out getting a sub
Paddy says:
This has been another great day for our peoples
Snoopy says:
Snoopy says:
300 years from now we will look back upon tihs
Paddy says:
I should have some troop numbers in a few days
Snoopy says:
and smile at the destruction this morning has made possible
Paddy says:
Snoopy says:
we will have swordsmen available in the next group
Snoopy says:
probably all swordsmen actually
Paddy says:
and in 50 mins I leave for the ANZAC day commeration dawn service
Snoopy says:
that is the force that will strike deeply into their center i think
Snoopy says:
ah
Snoopy says:
is that a WWII related holiday?
Paddy says:
yes indeed
Snoopy says:
ah
Paddy says:
WWI
Snoopy says:
Snoopy says:
oh
Snoopy says:
WWI? you guys were involved in that?
Paddy says:
we have been in a few
Snoopy says:
or was it just sending troops
Paddy says:
long story mate
Snoopy says:
didn't think there was a pacific theater of wwi
Snoopy says:
ok
Paddy says:
we sent many
Paddy says:
Turkey, France
Snoopy says:
ah yes
Snoopy says:
you and the canadians
Paddy says:
yes, for The Empire
Paddy says:
our Commonwealth
Snoopy says:
America just doesn't think much of WWI i think
Snoopy says:
we have veteran's day since then
Paddy says:
for heart and soul
for the Mother country
Snoopy says:
on 11 november every year
Snoopy says:
but ...
Snoopy says:
wwII was the one that was actually ... scary
Snoopy says:
to us, WWI could have gone the other way and we'd not have cared much i think
Snoopy says:
heck, america was 40% in favor of joining Germany in the first
Snoopy says:
war
Paddy says:
a tad emotional I be
Snoopy says:
ah yessir
Paddy says:
well sir, I wonder if peace would have a chance here if aqua gets iron and immortals
Snoopy says:
hehe
Snoopy says:
i doubt it
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
well to quote Beta, DR has been voted from the island
Snoopy says:
HEHE
Paddy says:
I expect Babs and LB to have a strong alliance
I feel in my gut that the LB's have been playing with us all
that their team is quite active, and they are showing anachy on purpose
Paddy says:
Beta told me that they have strong communications with LB
Snoopy says:
lol
Snoopy says:
i don't think they are
Paddy says:
Aqua has told me the same
Snoopy says:
i talk to LN a lot
Snoopy says:
he is only vaguely playing at all
Paddy says:
yet he is a child
Snoopy says:
hm are they going to play the save
Paddy says:
I think Babs have it
Snoopy says:
yessir
Snoopy says:
13 hours now
Snoopy says:
and not long ago 2 of them were here
Paddy says:
oh
Paddy says:
maddening
Snoopy says:
and what is your point with LN anywho
Paddy says:
I have no respect for what he says
Paddy says:
he is a confident and serial liar
Snoopy says:
ah
Snoopy says:
well, i can generally read him pretty well
Paddy says:
cool
Paddy says:
that is good to hear
Paddy says:
so what of togas, doyou think he is not there?
Snoopy says:
that and the fact that he's barely mentioned the DG recently
Snoopy says:
i have no idea actually
Snoopy says:
don't know who togas is tbh
Snoopy says:
member of LB i know
Snoopy says:
but beyond that nothing
Paddy says:
he is in dg's+
Paddy says:
made the map with BigFurryMonster for the Viking Demo game
Snoopy says:
ah
Paddy says:
also a consul / mod in the c3c isdg
and the same in the ptw isdg
Snoopy says:
yessir
Snoopy says:
yet i haven't seen him nearly at all in c3cd
Snoopy says:
dg
Paddy says:
indeed
Paddy says:
that being so, I would expect him in the background
Snoopy says:
yessir
Paddy says:
ahh well
Paddy says:
thanks Snoop
Paddy says:
we got some techs, some maps, and a war deal
Paddy says:
have a great day
Snoopy says:
you too
Paddy says:
and push that save along
Paddy says:
Snoopy says:
yessir
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
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McMeadows has been added to the conversation.
Ljube has been added to the conversation.
Paddy says:
Hello
Ljube says:
hello
Snoopy says:
lo
McMeadows says:
G'DAY
Paddy says:
good to be able to chat with you all
McMeadows says:
C3CDG meeting is open for discussion
McMeadows says:
what is on the agenda?
Paddy says:
Desolation Row
Paddy says:
that is the main component
McMeadows says:
Paddy says:
we would like to get some clarity on this war and planning sorted
McMeadows says:
allrighty... take the lead if you want
Ljube says:
OK, your forces are numerous, so I hear
Ljube says:
but they lack the mobile component.
McMeadows says:
not all
McMeadows says:
we're a bit kept at home due to DR units wandering around, and possibly a stack at a certain moment
McMeadows says:
in the future
Paddy says:
any sight of that stack
Ljube says:
I think they will first try to defend their key city of antioch before any plan of attack
Snoopy says:
depends
McMeadows says:
true... that's why I'd like to move OUR stack towards them and have you hide in our lands,
1. to counter a possible attack from them
2. to attack and erase ANtioch when they go in defense
Ljube says:
that's a fine plan
Ljube says:
how soon can your forces form and be deployed on hill 9-8 from antioch?
Snoopy says:
Ljube says:
we must coordinate everything
Snoopy says:
I think we were actually imagining a dual strike ...
Snoopy says:
no?
Ljube says:
yes, but it is uncertain if such a strike would be practicle
Snoopy says:
us attacking further east (their new city for starters, and ultimately their capital)
Ljube says:
aha, so not attack antioch at all
Snoopy says:
i have to believe your horse stack is enough for antioch ...
Ljube says:
but what do you gain?
Snoopy says:
We will be visible before you
Ljube says:
antioch is on hill and we don't have so many horses
Snoopy says:
and so hopefully they empty antioch.
McMeadows says:
Just disconnect the iron for starters
Snoopy says:
McMeadows says:
or Antioch if iron is defended
Ljube says:
iron is also on hill
McMeadows says:
We indeed intent to attack (or threaten) further east
Ljube says:
and whoever climbs that hill is sure to take the punishment from immortals
Snoopy says:
You don't have to disconnect the hill ...
McMeadows says:
to draw troops away from Antioch, or unleash their counter attack
Snoopy says:
antioch has only a single road connecting it to their country
Snoopy says:
if i'm not mistaken
McMeadows says:
Ljube says:
well that's old info
McMeadows says:
might become 2, but that's the same easy effort
Ljube says:
they may have built new roads
Snoopy says:
May be - but there's water blocking it
McMeadows says:
not more then 2
Snoopy says:
ultimately, they likely only have one road or two at most
Ljube says:
yes, lets assume 2
Ljube says:
always assume the worst
Snoopy says:
and it's easy to disconnect that, horsemen can do it without losing the move
Snoopy says:
if they heavily defend antioch - which is less likely i think given the threat to the capital that they'll see
Ljube says:
I have another idea, what bothers me more than antioch is their horses
Ljube says:
immortals are slow movers so they cannot attack our horses, but their horses can
Snoopy says:
that's on the south side, right?
Ljube says:
yes
Snoopy says:
harder to get to ...
Ljube says:
not for our horses
Ljube says:
we can send them there, also, our swords will join, but they would need a long time, so they can only be th esecond wave
Snoopy says:
2 attack just isn't that much of a concern IMO ... i'd rather see antioch pressured, and it's somewhat easier to pressure (dual threat of cutting roads)
Snoopy says:
they've already made a ton of horsemen
Snoopy says:
probably 6-7 i'd guess by this point at minimum
McMeadows says:
and lost 2
Paddy says:
well we forget that the babs too have units
McMeadows says:
that'll take longer
Ljube says:
well, cutting roads isn't much of a pressure
Paddy says:
they could send what they have3
Ljube says:
it will cost us units and achieve little
Ljube says:
taking/razing cities, or threatening to do so is presure
McMeadows says:
You forget that they can't send their total army at you
Snoopy says:
we'll already have attacked their city close to their capital
Snoopy says:
honestly i assume your attack will be easy, or else it will be adequate to assure their capital falls
McMeadows says:
as we're at the other side
Snoopy says:
Razing their iron is quite pressure sir
Ljube says:
good, but that city is not very important. they can sacrifice it
Snoopy says:
They won't
Snoopy says:
antioch you mean?
Ljube says:
yes, razing or capturing iron will be best
Snoopy says:
the capital they definitely won't
Ljube says:
no, that city close to capital
McMeadows says:
It might even be easy target practise for you, if they intent to attack us when we (slowly) move
Snoopy says:
oh sure
Snoopy says:
but then they'll worry about the capital
Snoopy says:
is the concern.
Ljube says:
their capital must be RAZED
Ljube says:
Snoopy says:
pillaging the road to antioch is nearly as good for us as attacking the city
Snoopy says:
not as good, but far easier.
Ljube says:
hmm, I fail to see how that would help
Snoopy says:
It disconnects their iron.
Ljube says:
they probably have many immortals by now
Snoopy says:
No immortals
Snoopy says:
bah, they probably have two or three
Ljube says:
two or three is lots
Snoopy says:
noh, 2 or 3 is annoying
Ljube says:
Snoopy says:
being able to replace them is lots
McMeadows says:
mateys... we are both STRONG towards DR,... they're good, but we're no newbies either
Snoopy says:
exactly ... they can't have that much force, or we wouldn't be strong to them
Snoopy says:
and we know they have a lot of horsemen, so i can't see more than 2-3 immortals max, and that's a high max imo
Ljube says:
yes, but our strength lies in slow movers
McMeadows says:
and their warriors are wandering around = not being upgraded
Ljube says:
neither you nor we have many horses
McMeadows says:
the slow movers will justify our walk throughj the mountains and aim for the east
Ljube says:
yes, how many turns do you need?
McMeadows says:
5
Ljube says:
we need at least 15 and that's the partial sword force
McMeadows says:
if we have our forces in Our eastern city (Nirvana)
Snoopy says:
how many horses do you have?
McMeadows says:
3
Snoopy says:
i thought you had a decent horseman ...
Snoopy says:
force ...
Ljube says:
we have 5 horses
Ljube says:
3 elite
McMeadows says:
all vets
Ljube says:
most of our army is swords
Snoopy says:
hm, 5 should be enough, but is not as many as i thought...
Ljube says:
well, we have very few cities
McMeadows says:
if you get the road connected to us (which I'm scraming for for centuries...)
Snoopy says:
hehe
Ljube says:
had to build units in this hostile world, neglected growth
Snoopy says:
yeh
Snoopy says:
horsemen are perhaps better than swords, tho, for you given your distance
McMeadows says:
I'm trully unpleased by your dedication to the road
McMeadows says:
we agreed on that long ago
Snoopy says:
unless your AM war is not going well...
Ljube says:
yes, but we lack workers
McMeadows says:
don't forget it yield you an extra city
Ljube says:
the next worker built is heading that way
McMeadows says:
not the deal as it should be
Snoopy says:
yeh, the road should have been done by now ...
Snoopy says:
it's been well over the number of turns it should have been complete in ...
McMeadows says:
we even shortened the road works for you by going half way ourselves
Paddy says:
are we to chat about taht road now
McMeadows says:
yes
Paddy says:
if so say so
McMeadows says:
as it allows for fast transport for your swordsmen to the front
Paddy says:
ok, then thank you this chat is over
we are here as Redb Guard - to discuss the DR war
McMeadows says:
as you see in my statement above, you understand the vitality of that road
Paddy says:
the workers on that road have been taken off twice only, and each time due to DR warriors in the area
Paddy says:
Mac, we have discussed that road and worker many times, and now that "Colin" DR Warrior has been located, then the worker will be returned
McMeadows says:
accompanying the workers with a warrior would have been sufficient to eliminate the risk of losing the workers
Snoopy says:
I just don't get how it takes this long to make the road ... pre-war with DR, even ...
Snoopy says:
and heck, send some swords with it ...
McMeadows says:
Anyway, I just wanted to stress its importance
McMeadows says:
I think we made our point and indeed should move on with other topics considering the war
Paddy says:
and ONCE AGAIN I understand
and as I have stated many times we are a Horde, not a single player
McMeadows says:
Last thing about that, the horde made a deal with EU on that road
Paddy says:
are you calling me out on that then?
Paddy says:
cause it sounds like it
McMeadows says:
Ok,... the road will finish soon and will allow for faster swordsmen movements into our lands, where they'll be able to catch some bad guys or start moving south
Paddy says:
so?
Ljube says:
ok, so you want our swords to provide protection for your land?
Paddy says:
are you calling me?
McMeadows says:
still 15 turns to make that?
Ljube says:
just a minute
Paddy says:
answer the question?
thought we were allies
McMeadows says:
There's only 1 goal
get DR off the map
Paddy says:
answer the question
McMeadows says:
We are allies, mate, and you know you can trust me/us
Ljube says:
ok, let's all just calm down
McMeadows says:
but it wouldn't be ok if we couldn't express our discomfort on certain issues
Snoopy says:
We are allies, paddy, but we are concerned that something we consider essential, and made a very favorable deal to you to get, is not being given a priority that it should be.
McMeadows says:
was not given
McMeadows says:
and we just need to get it of our chest
Paddy says:
McMeadows says:
Last thing about that, the horde made a deal with EU on that road
Paddy says:
are you calling me out on that then?
Snoopy says:
I need to go to work, so i am going to have to bow out
McMeadows says:
take care..
Snoopy says:
thanks
Paddy says:
Good bye Snoopy
Ljube says:
bye snoopy
McMeadows says:
I'll buy them lads a few beers and settle the matter
Snoopy says:
lol
Snoopy says:
snoopy369 has left the conversation.
Ljube says:
becks for me
McMeadows says:
allrighty...
McMeadows says:
what do you think about war tactics?
Paddy says:
ok, so I am to understand that you are not going to answer me?
Paddy says:
Mc?
McMeadows says:
on what matey? I don't understand the question
Paddy says:
McMeadows says:
Last thing about that, the horde made a deal with EU on that road
Paddy says:
are you calling me out on that then?
on that
McMeadows says:
That's exactly what I don't understand
"are you calling me out on that then?"
McMeadows says:
what does it mean..?
Paddy says:
are you calling me a liar, an oath breaker?
McMeadows says:
hahaha... I know you're sensetive on that matter and I KNOW you would NEVER intentionally break a treaty
Paddy says:
it is important to me to know
I have stood for this alliance before it was an alliance
Paddy says:
thus why I need this point clarified
McMeadows says:
But I did want to remind BOH of a treaty, where we had long ago agreed upon the road. And that's not calling you a liar whatsoever
Paddy says:
ok, thank you for answering me.
Paddy says:
shall we continue
McMeadows says:
please
McMeadows says:
timeframe?
McMeadows says:
We'll be able to move units any moment and will take 5 turns to get to DR (at least)
McMeadows says:
in order to do that, we need you to cover our ass in the that same time frame
McMeadows says:
The thing about it is that DR will see our HUGE stack and think about what to do
Ljube says:
OK, the road will be done very soon. Now to utilise that road fully we need an ROP. We could be inside EU territory in 12 turns with all of our swords
McMeadows says:
McMeadows says:
RoP any worries?
McMeadows says:
I don't know exactly..
McMeadows has left the conversation.
Ljube says:
I have no worries. ROP is to facilitate movement.
McMeadows has been added to the conversation.
Ljube says:
I have no worries. ROP is to facilitate movement.
Ljube says:
so our troops can move freely inside your land
McMeadows says:
I emnt, can we close 1, or are there requirements?
Ljube says:
close 1?
McMeadows says:
RoP
Paddy says:
Horde Grand Council needs to Stamp Approval
Ljube says:
and your Grand Council of course
Paddy says:
rumour has it we have some sway
Ljube says:
The Council of Europe
Ljube says:
EU = Europe
McMeadows says:
sway?
McMeadows says:
so technically we can just do it allready in game?
Ljube says:
sway means influence, power to persuade
Ljube says:
or decide
McMeadows says:
McMeadows says:
So, for the persepective. We'll leave our homelands near empty and move with a huge stack in the direction of DR. They might think to move swift through the fields and demolish our nation... But there will be BOH waiting for them...
Paddy says:
hehe
Ljube says:
OK, further calculations show that we can have our main force there in 10 turns, not 12
McMeadows says:
If they decide to stay home and go on defense, we'll have our huge stack in position and draw all the attention towards the east, while you move south from our territory onto Antioch.. how does it sound?
McMeadows says:
perfect,... so we need to move in about 7
Ljube says:
OK, we can cover the gap with adetachment that will arrive sooner
McMeadows says:
as we'll be spotted before we are there... with the road, resupplies will be swift
McMeadows says:
agreed on we start moving on turn 56?
Ljube says:
what is the current turn?
McMeadows says:
49
McMeadows says:
50 is next
Ljube says:
ok, on 56 then
McMeadows says:
Unless DR cooks up something unexpected,... on which we will have another chat if required
Ljube says:
they will keep building immortals
McMeadows says:
for instance, if they attack us before, we'll have to defend and you might get around them...
Ljube says:
yes, they probably won't attack
McMeadows says:
from the west... which is more slow
Ljube says:
they don't have many allies in this world
McMeadows says:
indeed... so I think we'll have this plan working in a few turns
Ljube says:
yes, so we'll haev first swords arriving to your land on turn 56 then
Ljube says:
or 57
McMeadows says:
if you're able to, we would be less vulnerable for the unlucky occosion of DR allready being just out of sight at the moment we move out
McMeadows says:
if you can have a few horsemen there, it'd would be great, as they are really adequate against other horsies
Ljube says:
yes, we can send at least two, possibly 3 or fours swords by that time (depending on whether we upgrade our remaining warriors)
Ljube says:
yes we can also send horses
McMeadows says:
that should be safe then
McMeadows says:
we'll trust our lands to our allies...
Ljube says:
thanks we will not fail you
McMeadows says:
You see I have good faith in you and ytour horde, great Khan
McMeadows says:
and you Ljube too, off course
Ljube says:
thanks
McMeadows says:
I just hope they think to be smart to put pressure on us with some horsemen... those will be toast and a huge loss
Paddy says:
indeed
Ljube says:
hehe
McMeadows says:
and otherwise they'll meet the horde at their doorstep
Paddy says:
indeed
Ljube says:
It seems that using this road and ROP, BOH swords can be on hill 9 from antioch in 20 turns
Ljube says:
if the opportunity present itself
McMeadows says:
ok... that means a few turns after we arrive at DR border
McMeadows says:
perfect,... just enough to have them move their units
Ljube says:
yes, road is cricial in making that possible
Ljube says:
Ljube says:
crucial
McMeadows says:
NO ****
McMeadows says:
wasn't without reason that we added that issue to the conversation... (and were a little annoyed it was still not done)...
Ljube says:
just in time, always the best way of doing business
McMeadows says:
hehe
McMeadows says:
Ok,.. I think we're done for now...
McMeadows says:
We need to keep one anther posted on proceedings. I'll probably take care of that from our side
Ljube says:
OK, I have to go now. See you.
Ljube has left the conversation.
Paddy says:
stay in touch with either Chris ir me here on that
McMeadows says:
who do you think it'll be...
Paddy says:
who?
McMeadows says:
retry please
Paddy says:
what do you mean
McMeadows says:
YOU... mate you're always online
Paddy says:
hehe
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Paddy the Scot
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Hordeland
Mar 2001
time: 14:22
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Good afternoon Lord Rhoth of the Bards
Hoping that this finds you and your people well.
I understand that the sacred save is with you at this present time, and just thought to touch base with you re-time mangeagement coordination etc, just as I did with mac quite regularly. The Horde stands by at this present time to receive the passage of said sacred save.
Some Intel that Red Guard Operations (RGO) feels could be of importance to you and your fine nation.
The Desolators.
Yul Brynner (horse 4/4) who we DR boost survived a battle with your troops was last to be found hiding in woods at coordinates - Metallica 2,2,2,2
A yet unnamed (Immortal 3/3) was last to be found on the road heading north at coordinates - Antioch 9
Fred (warrior 3/3) was last to be found at coordinates - Metallica 2,2,3
Dave (warrior 3/3) was last to be found at coordinates - Ta-Tu 7,7,4. Dave is well out of theatre, just keeping you in the loop of all movements.
RGO feels that these units will / could be used as infiltration units to burst across your borders and cause panic, destruction and further mayhem.
The Babylonians.
I had a good long chat with Beta in the last 24 hours. The Babylonians are at this moment putting together the "1st Babylonian Battle Patrol" which will consist of at least 3 horse, possibly 5 or 6. This Battle Patrol with aid of RGO maps will make its way to the DR warzone and be fully available to pick off Desolator units that are running loose, as well as put further pressure upon the Desolators.
In this the Babylonians will then start full preparation for the "2nd Babylonian Battle Patrol", and get such on its way to the front asap.
This allows them to fully contribute, yet not have the hassle of starting their GA through use of slow moving Bowmen.
These fast moving Battle Patrols will be of great benefit to our Three nation Alliance (TNA).
Horde Red Guard.
The road between our people will be finished in the next 2 turns.
We have dyes ready for instant trade.
We have scouts in scattered throughout the centre of the map - the Common garden.
Several of our units are ready to move into your lands in the coming two turns, with a much greater force just behind them.
If Dave (Desolator Warrior 3/3 moves the next step, he may be able to see our troops entering your lands.
Hoping all is going well
Paddy
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13-04-2005 05:41
must kill aqua... must kill aqua... must...
ahhh it is good to see we are all on the same wave length 
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