01-03-2005 13:41									#61
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quote: Originally posted by GePap He lacks the start power of Chris Rock. I thought he did OK, but yopu know what? They could have used Conan as well....Did he do the Oscars before, or was that the Emmy's?

Conan did the Emmy Awards IIRC, and it was the best award show of all time IMO. He was terrific.

	01-03-2005 13:45									#62
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quote: Originally posted by -Jrabbit Jon Stewart would be good, but I don't know if he'd stoop to that level. And I don't know if he can work without a net. (No way would Oscar allow importation of the whole Daily Show retinue.)

Stewart stoop to hosting the Oscars? Give me a break! He's a lot less talented than anyone who has ever hosted. He's not actually funny. This may come as a shock, but 98% of his "humor" is only funny if you agree with his political position. There are plenty of comedians who agree with him and are actually funny. But in order to appreciate the vast majority of his stuff you have to agree with his premise. Skilled comedians can make anyone laugh, and unfortunately he's just not one of them.

	01-03-2005 13:48									#63
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I expect nonsense from Ned, but you Snowfire? Spiderman II for Best Picture? You're kidding me. Good action flick, but not evidence of good filmmaking, from the acting, directing, etc. Hell, it wasn't even nominated for a Golden Globe Best Picture!

Ebert thinks it was the best Superhero film ever made. I'm not sure that I agree, but it was a really good film. I only saw Sideways and the Aviator of the nominated films this year, which is unusually low.

	01-03-2005 14:14									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If you don't think Crystal isn't funny, then you need to get your head checked .

I think you are agreeing with Diss.

	01-03-2005 17:28									#65
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Cate could have honestly been nominated for a half dozen roles at least. She's probably the best actress going these days. In fact I wouldn't even say that this role was one of her best, but she won anyway.

Oh, I agree absolutely- but it was rather like the ridiculous consolation Oscar that Judi Dench received for her nano-second appearance in 'Shakespeare in Love' .

Awarding the right award for the wrong film and wrong performance.

	01-03-2005 19:39									#66
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quote: Looks like the Academy might do well in the future to nominate the more popular films that American actually likes for "best picture" than to openly discriminate against them if they are "fantasy," "scifi" or "religious." This could well describe Spiderman II, Spotless Mind and the Passion.

You mean like ROTK, Ben-Hur, Forrest Gump, Gladiator, and Braveheart, all B. Picture winners, all fitting the categories you mentioned (except for Braveheart, which some historians have called "fanciful history" )?

	01-03-2005 19:46									#67
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"Eternal Sunshine" is the only flick that I think really got screwed over in the major categories. especially when I compare it to the similarly-quirky "Lost In Translation" from last year.

BTW, any method that involves gross sales in flawed, since summer movies gross more, and some are only in release for a couple weeks (specifically for eligibility in many cases).

What's the deal with this eastwood movie $!MM Baby? It totally caught me by surprise. I can't find anything that seems special about it in terms of writing, plot, etc. There was NO buzz about this from anyone I know. Now I have to consider seeing it. So I gotta ask...

What makes this movie so special?

	01-03-2005 21:24									#68
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While it's not the most intellectual movie out there, it pulls at those heart strings.

So if you have any heart at all, you'll enjoy the movie .

Just remember to bring Kleenex.

It's a sad movie, I guess they wanted something different this year to win.

	01-03-2005 21:30									#69
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It's simple
Hollywood likes Clint.
Hollywood doesn't like Martin.
Hollywood votes the winner.

	01-03-2005 21:32									#70
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quote: Originally posted by rah It's simple Hollywood likes Clint. Hollywood doesn't like Martin. Hollywood votes the winner.

and the fact the Aviator is an average movie. (By Scorcese standards)

	01-03-2005 21:35									#71
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And there are some that were comparing Clint's movie to the last karate kid movie.

	01-03-2005 21:57									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident and the fact the Aviator is an average movie. (By Scorcese standards)

I disagree.

	01-03-2005 22:07									#73
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The Aviator is a classic Hollywood "larger than life" biopic, set in the time period of Hollywood's golden age. Throw in Scorcese and iDiCaprio and t looks like a winner.

Although I was very pleased to see Jamie Foxx cop best actor. His performance in Ray was absolutely riveting and fully committed.

	01-03-2005 22:56									#74
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As the acting Oscars show, the acting in MDB was top notch (all three main actors nominated, two won), and the story is very powerful-the end is incredably moving, and the story is utterly realistic- you believe what the characters do when they do it.

Its a small, quiet, non flashy but powerful movie. I think it is better than Mystic River in terms of its dramatic power.

	01-03-2005 23:52									#75
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I don't think winning or even being nominated is and true indication of quality. Voting is done by all insiders and anyone that doesn't think popularity plays an important role is just being naive. While I'm sure some put considerable thought into their selection, but I would bet that most are voting no different then they would for High School class president.

	01-03-2005 23:56									#76
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Ebert thinks it was the best Superhero film ever made. I'm not sure that I agree, but it was a really good film. I only saw Sideways and the Aviator of the nominated films this year, which is unusually low.

Bolding is mine .

Like TEF, great superhero flick, good fun, but not Best Picture material. Didn't wow on plot or acting. Was entertaining, but not 'art'.

	02-03-2005 00:00									#77
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quote: What's the deal with this eastwood movie $!MM Baby? It totally caught me by surprise. I can't find anything that seems special about it in terms of writing, plot, etc. There was NO buzz about this from anyone I know. Now I have to consider seeing it. So I gotta ask...

It had an undercurrent of buzz... people were talking about it, especially the action and the powerful story. Clint likes drama and he isn't one for happy endings. It's refreshing that is rewarded. Life isn't always a happy ending. And the man can direct (see Unforgiven).

	02-03-2005 00:42									#78
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and there is the twist in the last 1/3 of the movie.

There is the slight possibility M$B won for political reasons. I'm not one of these conservative whackos who listen to AM talk radio. But the thought has crossed my mind.

It's difficult to talk about the twist without spoilers. so I'll use tags.

spoiler(highlight to read): We all know how liberal hollywood really is aside from Arnold and a few other older actors. It's possible the film won just to piss off Medved and Rush Limbaugh. It's possible they want to push this Euthanasia issue further. While it is true, the movie doesn't actually support euthanasia, we all know hollywood is not that smart. They will see it as a leftist issue anyways.

another minor reason might be because Scorcese is so "New York". Does he even live in LA? I don't know much about him aside from his movies. Is he one of those directors who snub hollywood like Kubrick? That's why Kubrick didn't win in my opinion. They just aren't hollywood enough. Although in this final case, Scorcese did make a movie about hollywood for once.

	02-03-2005 01:04									#79
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The "too New York" argument doesn't really fly. Woody Allen won for "Annie Hall", a movie that is all about New York.

	02-03-2005 02:25									#80
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Hollywood always want for there to be an American "art auteur" director, someone with intelligence, chops, and cred they can point to as a "serious American director" in answer to all the slagging "Hollywood movies" get in the world press. Someone who is welcome at Cannes.

Woody Allen was that guy for quite awhile.
Then Spike Lee was that guy for awhile.

Eastwood may be that guy now.

Just a thought...

	02-03-2005 02:32									#81
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MDB was a better film thatn the Aviator. The story of MDB was more powerful, not flashy, but the characters are simply much more approachable- not larger than life images, but oh so human people.

I was mezmerized by MDB, while I looked at my watch many times during the Aviator. It was a better film than Gangs of NY by a far, but MDB was a better film.

As for the "political reasons", utter bull (The sea inside is a movie about euthanasia, and Vera Drake about backroom abortions) but hell, at least in MDB there is a priest, and Eastwood's character is a church going man.

	02-03-2005 02:43									#82
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I haven't seen MDB but have heard that the use of a priest was to epitomize the ineptitude of priests and charicature them as unable to give guidance to the point where a lay priest can't even describe the nature of the trinity let alone give a cognizant arguement to why not to perform euthanasia. (realizing I am in favor of allowing assisted suicide as I believe it the most fundamental right of a human to decide to live or die).

I fully admit since I have not seen the film this point is fully conjecture.

	02-03-2005 02:47									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe I haven't seen MDB but have heard that the use of a priest was to epitomize the ineptitude of priests and charicature them as unable to give guidance to the point where a lay priest can't even describe the nature of the trinity let alone give a cognizant arguement to why not to perform euthanasia. (realizing I am in favor of allowing assisted suicide as I believe it the most fundamental right of a human to decide to live or die). I fully admit since I have not seen the film this point is fully conjecture.

The Eastwood character is earnestly religious, yet is a hard ass so he likes messing with the priest, so his question about the trinity is fascetious, specially since, having gone to mass every time in over 20 years, Clint's character knew better.

As for the killing question, what response could you give? The priest makes it clear he believes it is wrong and beyond the pale.

The priest character is likeable and believable.

	02-03-2005 02:49									#84
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This debate illustrates that there is no consensus on the criteria that makes films "great." I would include popularity. However, that seemingly would exclude Spotless Mind which was one of my favorite films last year. Go figure.

But you have to admit that Hollywood does "diss" sci-fi and fantasy films almost by knee-jerk reaction. Imran's posts here are very typical of the snide arrogance that inhabits the Academy. The year that Star Wars set all sorts of box office records and was a popular phenomenon without precedent, the Academy gave the best picture oscar to Annie Hall, an almost mediocre Woody Allen film. Now, it is true that the acting in Star Wars was second rate, but the movie as a whole was terrific. Clearly one of the best films ever made, let alone 1977.

I also agree with Ebert that SpiderMan II was the best movie ever made in that genre. It was superb. I remember my reaction when the movie was over: This film set the standard for best films this year. I guess, though, I was wrong in my assumption that Hollywood had gotten over its discrimination against fantasy films. The RoTK truly was a aberation. Perhaps it got the award for all three films, which as a whole, was a major artistic achievement. But by not including Spiderman II, but including such less impressive movies as Sideways, the Academy reverted to form.

	02-03-2005 03:01									#85
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Certain issues are alsways key to best films. You need a strong screenplay, good acting, and technicals that compliment the screenplay and the story and the acting.

Sadly. most sci fi films and fantasy films have poor screenplays or mediocre ones, with mediocre acting, and technicals that overwheml or surpass these basics. For those reasons they are NOT the best films. This is also why they get dated so fast, because the effects change and get better, meaning future audiences are NOT interested in them anymore, and thus the weak screenplays and acting shows through.

Spiderman 2 had good acting, and great technicals, but the screenplay was formulaic. The formula was done very well, but it was still formula.

Sideways for exmaple had a great screenplay and great acting, and the technicals fit the film well, so it is nominated.

	02-03-2005 03:04									#86
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How can you call Sideways less impressive than Spider-Man?

Remember, these are achievements in the arts, not just pure entertainment. Sideways was far more artistic than Spider-Man II (although I fully think that Finding Neverland should've been replaced by Eternal Sunshine...but hey, at least Charlie got the Original Screenplay Oscar).

	02-03-2005 03:05									#87
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The Eastwood character is earnestly religious, yet is a hard ass so he likes messing with the priest, so his question about the trinity is fascetious, specially since, having gone to mass every time in over 20 years, Clint's character knew better. As for the killing question, what response could you give? The priest makes it clear he believes it is wrong and beyond the pale. The priest character is likeable and believable.

I've heard both sides of the arguement around the priest.

On the one hand I've heard the priest being described as youthful and human as a consequence likable.

On the other, I have heard the priest described as inept and as a consequence a voice to be ignored. A chattering religious figure who at best can simply recite rote Catholic Dogma, yet inellectually impoverished.

As I have not seen the film, I defer to yours and other opinions until such time as it comes out on DVD.

	02-03-2005 03:09									#88
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quote: Originally posted by GePap The Eastwood character is earnestly religious, yet is a hard ass so he likes messing with the priest, so his question about the trinity is fascetious, specially since, having gone to mass every time in over 20 years, Clint's character knew better. As for the killing question, what response could you give? The priest makes it clear he believes it is wrong and beyond the pale. The priest character is likeable and believable.

what I liked about the priest was he gave a decent reason to not kill her, he didn't just retort the catholic standard line. Although he may have been wrong, at least he was using his brain to explain why Frankie shouldn't do it.

It didn't appear to portray religion in a negative light. And that was a welcome change.

	02-03-2005 03:15									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe I've heard both sides of the arguement around the priest. On the one hand I've heard the priest being described as youthful and human as a consequence likable. On the other, I have heard the priest described as inept and as a consequence a voice to be ignored. A chattering religious figure who at best can simply recite rote Catholic Dogma, yet inellectually impoverished. As I have not seen the film, I defer to yours and other opinions until such time as it comes out on DVD.

you can see my above post for this. The priest did a good job. I don't believe he gave the standard catholic dogma. He appeard to think, and give a sufficient reason why Clint shouldn't do it.

I can't remember the line exactly, but he said if you do this, you will lose yourself, and will never be able to find yourself again. He preceded that by talking about Clint's character's guilt, which was the reason why clint attended mass everyday. The priest didn't want Clint to have to suffer more guilt over doing something he may regret.

It may have not been the right advice in this case, but at least he put some thought into it.

	02-03-2005 03:39									#90
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous How can you call Sideways less impressive than Spider-Man? Remember, these are achievements in the arts, not just pure entertainment. Sideways was far more artistic than Spider-Man II...

If by "artistic" you mean "smarmingly self-aware of its own pretentious nature", then I'll agree.