03-03-2005 13:24									#151
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quote: Originally posted by pchang And yet, under Carter, the hostages were not released and under Reagan, they were.

Reagan illegally bribed the mullahs with weapons, Carter didn't.

	03-03-2005 16:49									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Reagan illegally bribed the mullahs with weapons, Carter didn't.

Illegally?

	03-03-2005 19:57									#153
	Re: Re: The democratic revolution marches on... Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Oerdin quote: Originally posted by DanS If you want to include Iraq as a democratic revolution, then that costs some $50 billion + per annum. You are off by about $100 billion.

We're making 50 billion a year with Iraq?

	03-03-2005 21:28									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo [ quote: Saudi Arabia held its first elections ever (though only for city level officials) Only for half of the city-councils. .

their doing it in regional chunks. teh second chunk voted today, and the third chunk is scheduled.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm...saudi_elections

but yes, half the MEMBERS of the city councils will still be appointed.

A baby step, but if youve ever watched a baby learn to walk, you know how fast a dynamic that can start Certainly municipal democracy is an excellent school room for developing a democratic political culture.

	03-03-2005 21:42									#155
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I forgot to edit that for clarity; I meant half of the city council seats.

	03-03-2005 21:45									#156
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quote: As for Fallujah, youre wrong there. Fallujah was a mess from the day we went into Iraq - IIUC it was essentially under the control of extremists from April 2003. The Marines began to make noises about chaning the policy in March 2004 when they took over from 101st AB - the insurgents took the next step by the attack on the convoys and the display of the charred bodies. The Marines reacted after that, not very effectively.

IIRC, the Fallujah takeover occured largely due to the assassination of Yassin.

	03-03-2005 21:46									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Ramo quote: As for Fallujah, youre wrong there. Fallujah was a mess from the day we went into Iraq - IIUC it was essentially under the control of extremists from April 2003. The Marines began to make noises about chaning the policy in March 2004 when they took over from 101st AB - the insurgents took the next step by the attack on the convoys and the display of the charred bodies. The Marines reacted after that, not very effectively. IIRC, the Fallujah takeover occured largely due to the assassination of Yassin.

In Gaza? WTF?

	03-03-2005 21:47									#158
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Yep, it really, really pissed the Iraqis off.

	03-03-2005 22:56									#159
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my understanding is that the hanging of the contractors was a deliberate attempt to provoke a US attack, that would turn opinion against the US. A standard AQ tactic. Almost worked, except the IGC guys said to hold back, and we waited till we could do something planned, instead of half c*cked.

Ieve never seen a claim that it was an emotional reaction to what was happening in Gaza.

	04-03-2005 08:48									#160
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quote: A previously unknown group has claimed responsibility for the the gruesome killing of four US contractors in Fallujah, western Iraq. It said the action was in revenge for Israel's assassination of Hamas leader Sheik Ahmed Yassin. "This is a gift from the people of Fallujah to the people of Palestine and the family of Sheik Ahmed Yassin who was assassinated by the criminal Zionists," said in the statement from the "Brigades of Martyr Ahmed Yassin"

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004...l?oneclick=true