25-04-2005 20:01									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The IRB issued an edict in the late nineties that teams will face it meakly and quietly and at least 10M away or else. Some team should have had the courage to investigate the or else part.

The haka was not conceived for the opposing team to face it meekly and quietly. Therefore, we can understand the IRB edict as expressing with humour the authorisation to face it any how, PROVIDED this thing is done at least 10M away.

	25-04-2005 23:34									#242
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The French should face the Haka with offering some vin chaud to the opponents, who would be very impolite to refuse. And wine never altered anyone's qualities. Or we could pop out some champagne bottles and look at the kiwis trying to dodge the bouchons (I don't know in English, but a bouchon in French means both the little, inocuous thing used to taper a bottle, and the big hit you give an opponent when you run into him and push him back 2 meters away on the tackle).
I'm sure we could find some interesting ways to face the Haka if only we gave it some thought.

	26-04-2005 04:45									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Actually you can’t Finbar. The IRB issued an edict in the late nineties that teams will face it meakly and quietly and at least 10M away or else. Some team should have had the courage to investigate the or else part.

It was probably the Wallabies turning their backs on the haka in the mid-90s that brought about the edict. I'm not sure about the edict. It seems to enshrine the haka as some sort of defacto national anthem rather than what it's meant to be. Or was, originally, meant to be.

quote: I’m not in work w/b 31st May so you may even be online before I return.

I hope to be online the day we arrive. I've got too many long-running online battles to maintain.

quote: I thought Mehrtens was a good bench prospect for the tests?

I think he probably is. Presumably Carter will start, but the ranks of 5/8s behind him are only promising. Nick Evans from the Highlanders had a taste last season but, from memory, at full back.

quote: Who has displaced Carlos at Blues? Nipping the mouths heels?

Tasea Lavea. I saw his first couple of games and I wondered why they'd preferred him to Carlos. He looked jumpy and uncertain and his field kicking was erratic at best. I haven't seen him recently, perhaps he has settled down. Although since Carlos' injury, they probably haven't had another option. For a team loaded with talent as they are, the Blues are making very hard work of winning matches. They were down something like 20 points against the Stormers on the weekend before coming back to win comfortably. Still, I suppose they're winning.

quote: What we should do is drink a cup of tea right after the Haka – it’s traditional after all. And all that nice psyche up adrenalin will flow out the ABs whilst we do.

Pity J**** has retired. England could reply with their own tradition - J**** being yellow carded.

	26-04-2005 04:50									#244
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare The French should face the Haka with offering some vin chaud to the opponents, who would be very impolite to refuse. And wine never altered anyone's qualities. Or we could pop out some champagne bottles and look at the kiwis trying to dodge the bouchons (I don't know in English, but a bouchon in French means both the little, inocuous thing used to taper a bottle, and the big hit you give an opponent when you run into him and push him back 2 meters away on the tackle). I'm sure we could find some interesting ways to face the Haka if only we gave it some thought.

A bouchon is a cork. I'd've thought 15 Bleus shaking up and uncorking 15 bottles of Veuve and aiming the corks at the haka would take the ABs' minds off what they're doing!

	26-04-2005 13:30									#245
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quote: I'm sure we could find some interesting ways to face the Haka if only we gave it some thought.

But we can’t because the IRB did indeed stipulate it should be treated with ‘appropriate respect’, which has actually turned out to mean you can’t do anything at all whilst they do it.

I do like the vin chaud idea though.

quote: I'm not sure about the edict.

If they want it as the anthem then fine – do it at the time of the anthems.

In the space of a few years we had the Wallabies turning their back – Scot Hastings chipping the ball all around it and the English hooker standing face to face with Maxwell accepting the challenge. It was Cockerills face to face that seemed to force the 10M idea through.

The NZ Union then starting bleating in a way that would even shame Sir Clive – it might be a challenge but the opposition should not respond to it – that is deucedly unfair.

I’m against it unless all sides are allowed thirty seconds before a game to do whatever they want – Morris dancing, Pom baiting or in the case of the French in the amateur days a fag and a glass of wine.

quote: I hope to be online the day we arrive. I've got too many long-running online battles to maintain.

All kicking off of the cooking forums then?

quote: Tasea Lavea. I saw his first couple of games and I wondered why they'd preferred him to Carlos. He looked jumpy and uncertain and his field kicking was erratic at best

He sounds more North Auckland than Maori? Carlos has pretty much made it clear all year that without an AB berth he is heading north – Blues might be looking to the future even if the lad is not good enough right now?

quote: Pity J**** has retired. England could reply with their own tradition - J**** being yellow carded.

The latest card was dismissed on appeal!

At least two more games for Jonno!

The ruling:

“Having studied the video evidence, we were not convinced that there was a fight. We concluded that Johnson was illegally removed from the maul in a manner that was dangerous and left him on his back in an exposed position. We have also studied the video of his immediate reaction, and we are satisfied that there was contact as he turned towards Ben Russell. But we are not satisfied to the required standard that the contact amounted to foul play justifying a yellow card."

To interpret that for you Jonno pushed Russell, no punching was involved.

And by god we need him on Saturday so I’m very pleased. We lost Moody and Rowntree for the season playing those gentle Frenchmen.

quote: A bouchon is a cork. I'd've thought 15 Bleus shaking up and uncorking 15 bottles of Veuve and aiming the corks at the haka would take the ABs' minds off what they're doing!

Personally I like the idea of having the girls form the Moulin Rouge perform a counter to the haka immediately afterwards. But that may just be me.

Anyone remember a player called Jonny Wilkinson? Promising lad who used to play for England? He has been named on the Canadian tour squad for June – big non test fixtures against the Canucks and the Eagles. Four years ago Corry was summoned form this tour to Australia late on and ended up playing all three tests. I would imagine Wilko has similar hopes.

	26-04-2005 18:29									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Havak If they want it as the anthem then fine – do it at the time of the anthems.

My point precisely.

quote: or in the case of the French in the amateur days a fag and a glass of wine.

Or in the case of that blonde-tipped Toulousian #8, all he needed was a glass of wine!

quote: All kicking off of the cooking forums then?

It can get pretty tough in the vegie growing forum too!

quote: He sounds more North Auckland than Maori? Carlos has pretty much made it clear all year that without an AB berth he is heading north – Blues might be looking to the future even if the lad is not good enough right now?

I think that's the case. One thing about NZ rugby, they don't deal very much in sentiment. When they want a clean out, they have a clean out. Sometimes not for the better. Speaking of which, what happened to Taine Randall? Is he up there somewhere?

quote: To interpret that for you Jonno pushed Russell, no punching was involved.

They viewed it through J****-coloured glasses. Talk about sentiment in rugby!

quote: Anyone remember a player called Jonny Wilkinson? Promising lad who used to play for England? He has been named on the Canadian tour squad for June – big non test fixtures against the Canucks and the Eagles. Four years ago Corry was summoned form this tour to Australia late on and ended up playing all three tests. I would imagine Wilko has similar hopes.

What does that selection really mean? That he's being parked on that tour to get some match practice into him? I'm sure he'd like to emulate Corry, but two rugbyless years followed by a couple of matches against some eskimos would, I'd imagine, be far from Corry's lead up last time. If they're serious about using him against NZ, they're better off taking him and playing him against some provinces. Or are they just giving him some games in anticipation of next season?

	27-04-2005 13:51									#247
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quote: Speaking of which, what happened to Taine Randall? Is he up there somewhere?

He is with Sarries but currently injured.

quote: They viewed it through J****-coloured glasses. Talk about sentiment in rugby!

My own perspective is that the Sarries lad should have been red carded and Jonno applauded for not hitting the little ****. Note the Saracens yellow card in the same incident was upheld.

quote: If they're serious about using him against NZ, they're better off taking him and playing him against some provinces. Or are they just giving him some games in anticipation of next season?

Good point about the preparation – Corry’s was far more robust (coming off a Tigers League and Europe double)

I still think it is all mind games. If fit I expect him to fly to NZ not to Canada. Who Clive thinks he is fooling I do not know.

Interesting titbit about Jonno from the weekend press – when pressed on the Lions he said no consistently until the journo asked “not even if they had an injury crisis?”. His reply “well yes of course I would then”.

Should I worry about Clive going around tripping up the other locks now?

	27-04-2005 13:57									#248
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quote: Originally posted by Havak He is with Sarries but currently injured.

Has he contributed anything when fit?

quote: My own perspective is that the Sarries lad should have been red carded and Jonno applauded for not hitting the little ****. Note the Saracens yellow card in the same incident was upheld.

His name wasn't J****!

quote: I still think it is all mind games. If fit I expect him to fly to NZ not to Canada. Who Clive thinks he is fooling I do not know.

I think the ABs would be quite looking forward to him playing on nil preparation.

quote: Interesting titbit about Jonno from the weekend press – when pressed on the Lions he said no consistently until the journo asked “not even if they had an injury crisis?”. His reply “well yes of course I would then”.

He has a dry wit.

So, with all your knowledge, experience and judgement, which team will disappear down a division next weekend?

	27-04-2005 15:05									#249
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I can catch nuances of sarcasm as well as Martin’s dry wit you know.

The permutations are many and various. Quins have 37 points, Worcester have 38 and Northampton, Leeds and London Irish have 39. Critically Leeds and the exiles have better points differences than Saints.

Quins host Sale at home, Saints visit Worcester, Leeds are away to Bath and Exiles at Newcastle. All the teams in the mix therefore have tough fixtures.

But here is my call – Quins are favourites to go down as Sale are too good for them. That’s my head speaking. My heart says I hope Worcester thump Northampton and that Saints then go down. Saints deserve the drop on two points – converting to a foreign legion over the last two seasons AND critically supplying Lardy to England as their only contribution!

As for Taine he has been injured more than he has played. Sarries have made a late charge for the play offs (too late I believe – barring maths miracles) but Taine has not figured in it due to injury. I think the sheer volume of rugby in our Leagues catches out a lot of SH retirees and their bodies betray them (remember Timmy Horan, with Sarries for four seasons and played one seasons worth of games?)

quote: His name wasn't J****!

It was Russell – same surname as the previous Sarries player that got Jonno unfairly banned back in 2002.

quote: I think the ABs would be quite looking forward to him playing on nil preparation.

Quite. Realistically he should not go on the tour. But I am sure he will. I have a feeling this Lions team may have a 99 call in the back pocket for when their half back’s are creamed. It is traditional in New Zealand after all.

	27-04-2005 21:55									#250
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The Brumbies coach is talking about shaking up his starting lineup for the match in Wellington this weekend. Sounds like desperate stuff. It's a must-win game for the Brumbies, and coming back from a big losing streak against the 'canes at home will be a big ask.

I expect it will still be close, but the Hurricanes should win. Hopefuly they do win...it'll make their upcoming matches against the Blues and the Crusaders that much more interesting.

	28-04-2005 04:45									#251
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I can catch nuances of sarcasm as well as Martin’s dry wit you know.

Unfair. I'm constantly in awe of your knowledge, experience and judgement.

quote: But here is my call – Quins are favourites to go down as Sale are too good for them. That’s my head speaking. My heart says I hope Worcester thump Northampton and that Saints then go down. Saints deserve the drop on two points – converting to a foreign legion over the last two seasons AND critically supplying Lardy to England as their only contribution!

I'm also constantly in awe of your perversity! So if Quins go down, will the likes of Greenwood go down with them? Or will he move?

quote: I think the sheer volume of rugby in our Leagues catches out a lot of SH retirees and their bodies betray them (remember Timmy Horan, with Sarries for four seasons and played one seasons worth of games?)

Fair point. The SH blokes must find the volume pretty exhausting.

	28-04-2005 04:55									#252
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia The Brumbies coach is talking about shaking up his starting lineup for the match in Wellington this weekend. Sounds like desperate stuff. It's a must-win game for the Brumbies, and coming back from a big losing streak against the 'canes at home will be a big ask.

Mmmmm. In order to shake up a lineup, you need someone available to insert into the team. Larkham and Rathbone have both failed fitness tests for this week and Gregan is out with his broken leg. The only fresh players he has available to him are a couple of utter rookies who played well very early in the season. I suppose they could reappear. But they played well when Larkham was there to guide and lead them. He's not going to be there.

	28-04-2005 09:58									#253
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Nicking players from over east isn't enough for WA any more. Now they've grabbed some lad who's been playing for Munster. I forget his name.
I suppose that was the intent of the ARU however ...

Given that the haka has been brought up as a point of contention (yet) again I guess I don't really need to go back a page or two to find out the original source, nor do I need to consult an oracle to find out that the Tigers have probably fallen flat on their faces somewhere, do I?

[Hmmm. Ok so the 'usual suspect' didn't actually bring it up but he did take the ball and run with it so I feel rather vindicated. ]

I can only repeat what I said the last time this came up. I have no objection whatsoever to other teams coming up with their own response, as long as it's in the same spirit.

I eagerly await Havak's response, which will undoubtably be full of his usual well-thought-out, unbiased and illuminating comments.

	28-04-2005 13:24									#254
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I’m sure it will.

quote: [Hmmm. Ok so the 'usual suspect' didn't actually bring it up but he did take the ball and run with it so I feel rather vindicated. ]

Now that’s an apology/retraction worthy of a barrister!

Perhaps then we should turn on the real target of the situation – the IRB. For it is the IRB that allows the ABs and a few Island nations this concession whilst refusing all other requests for immediate pre-match activities. Just ask the ARU.

So I guess the point is the situation is inequitable. I’m glad to see you don’t mind other nations finding their own responses – but it has to be in the same ‘spirit’? So who to your mind should arbitrate on this matter of ‘spirit’? You will recall the Australians have been refused on many occasions the right to play Waltzing Matilda pre match when away from home? I guess the fact this is a little (and admittedly thoroughly annoying) patriotic ditty mean it is in the wrong spirit compared to the challenge dance of the Haka? I cannot agree.

quote: Unfair. I'm constantly in awe of your knowledge, experience and judgement.

quote: I'm also constantly in awe of your perversity! So if Quins go down, will the likes of Greenwood go down with them? Or will he move?

I know from Quins previous brushes with relegation that Greenwood has a parachute clause to his contract – he will leave immediately.

Of course Quins being relegated would mean my former DOR and cult Hero Deano would be taking the reigns of them in the second flight next season.

quote: Fair point. The SH blokes must find the volume pretty exhausting.

Well to be fair - because I don’t like to be well-thought-out, unbiased and illuminating all the time - everyone finds it exhausting. And something must be done.

Breaking the club system in England is a no-no (the clubs have all the player assetts under contract so are pretty powerful) – so Wales and Ireland’s solutions of provinces are not open to us. Building huge French type squads is not possible because we are salary capped. Re-organisation of the competitions is the way to go – but that requires huge co-operation (RFU, sponsors, clubs, ERP and ERC) and rugby has no great history of such co-operation (here at least).

I have not said this for a few weeks so forgive the indulgence – will someone please sack Robinson so his successor has some time before the Autumn tests.

	28-04-2005 14:21									#255
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Nicking players from over east isn't enough for WA any more. Now they've grabbed some lad who's been playing for Munster. I forget his name.

David Pusey. Lock. Moved to Munster a couple of years ago from the Brumbies. He didn't see much future at the Brumbies with the likes of Plank and Vickerman in front of him.

quote: I eagerly await Havak's response, which will undoubtably be full of his usual well-thought-out, unbiased and illuminating comments.

Ah! Another Havak admirer. I knew there had to be another one out there somewhere.

	28-04-2005 14:27									#256
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quote: Originally posted by Havak You will recall the Australians have been refused on many occasions the right to play Waltzing Matilda pre match when away from home? I guess the fact this is a little (and admittedly thoroughly annoying) patriotic ditty mean it is in the wrong spirit compared to the challenge dance of the Haka? I cannot agree.

Good point. As irritating as I find Waltzing Matilda, the IRB's decision reeks of hypocrisy.

quote: I have not said this for a few weeks so forgive the indulgence – will someone please sack Robinson so his successor has some time before the Autumn tests.

Fear not. Though you're not saying it, we know you're thinking it. As we all are. Even ravagon. When he's not cranking out justifications for the All Blacks doing their pre-match jig while no one else is allowed anything remotely similar.

	28-04-2005 19:35									#257
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Mmmmm. In order to shake up a lineup, you need someone available to insert into the team. Larkham and Rathbone have both failed fitness tests for this week and Gregan is out with his broken leg. The only fresh players he has available to him are a couple of utter rookies who played well very early in the season. I suppose they could reappear. But they played well when Larkham was there to guide and lead them. He's not going to be there.

Oh dear. Sounds like the Brumbies could be in for a thrashing then...unless the rookies step up to the plate.

	28-04-2005 20:15									#258
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quote: Originally posted by finbar justifications for the All Blacks doing their pre-match jig while no one else is allowed anything remotely similar.

Well, the Haka has been part of the All Black tradition for quite a while now. It's also very politically correct. Get the Wallabies to do an Abo dance and you'll probably find the same acceptance of it among the IRB folk.

	28-04-2005 21:03									#259
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Mmm... Considering some of the pre match dances I saw in France, I'm not sure they would be deemed politically correct.
The few such dances that I saw usually ended with the short pulled downwards and turnign one's back at the opponents, if you see what I mean. Showing one's ass is probably not deemed politically correct, yet I know teams which do this regularly. The words of the song aren't much about life and death as the Haka but more about wine and driking, but that's probably more traditional too.

	29-04-2005 05:07									#260
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I’m glad to see you don’t mind other nations finding their own responses – but it has to be in the same ‘spirit’? So who to your mind should arbitrate on this matter of ‘spirit’? You will recall the Australians have been refused on many occasions the right to play Waltzing Matilda pre match when away from home? I guess the fact this is a little (and admittedly thoroughly annoying) patriotic ditty mean it is in the wrong spirit compared to the challenge dance of the Haka? I cannot agree.

You're not seriously trying to trap me into defending the IRB are you?
I may have been a little thick lately ... stupid lithp ... er, sick lately, but not that sick.

Um. Actually I recall no such thing I'm afraid. I wasn't aware that other teams were trying to get their own, er, 'jig' as finbar puts it, nor that they'd been refused?
As for the spirit aspect I'd prefer some sort of wardance thingy from everybody to tell the truth but I could be a little flexible.
[Not quite to the extent of English tea parties flexible. ]
That 'zulu' wardance that the South Africans put on a few years ago for example?
I suppose it might not've been as effective if it'd been the Boks performing it and without all of the props though ...

quote: Ah! Another Havak admirer. I knew there had to be another one out there somewhere.

We are few, but growing in number.

	29-04-2005 07:54									#261
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Mmm... Considering some of the pre match dances I saw in France, I'm not sure they would be deemed politically correct. The few such dances that I saw usually ended with the short pulled downwards and turnign one's back at the opponents, if you see what I mean. Showing one's ass is probably not deemed politically correct, yet I know teams which do this regularly. The words of the song aren't much about life and death as the Haka but more about wine and driking, but that's probably more traditional too.

And a lot more fun!

	29-04-2005 07:56									#262
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon We are few, but growing in number.

We're right at the very top of the WWF's endangered species list. Pandas and white rhinos are over-populated compared to us.

	29-04-2005 12:57									#263
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My cult of personality numbers two. I must be worthy for truly I am a leader amongst men. Always first to the bar (seldom first to pay).

quote: The words of the song aren't much about life and death as the Haka but more about wine and drinking, but that's probably more traditional too.

Out of interest do players indulge in ‘flaming ****holes’ in France? It’s one of the stupidest rugby games I have ever seen – last to put out the flames wins. Mind you dwarf tossing is pretty bizarre too. I’ll stick with Spoof – the worst that happens to me with that is I get blind drunk.

quote: You're not seriously trying to trap me into defending the IRB are you?

Not really – your doing so would have been ‘added value’.

quote: Not quite to the extent of English tea parties flexible.

Sensible chap.

No one else has tried to introduce a haka type ‘dance’ for away games – but the problem is that teams have been refused to right to do anything away from home. Australia are the notable example.

Most of the other teams are more concerned about the protective cocoon that has been placed around the Haka – and the RFU certainly complained when the 10 metre rule was brought in. It annoys me too – if players want to get in the face of the haka I see no problem with that.

I guess I want to ask you why should it be protected (tradition and PC do not convince me at all – very ‘Tory’ arguments both), why should the opposition even have to watch it if they don’t want to? And why are the ABs allowed to do it immediately pre-match in other nations home grounds? Level playing fields not acceptable or something?

quote: I suppose it might not've been as effective if it'd been the Boks performing it and without all of the props though ...

Interesting thing is the Boks have a traditional touring dance – but it occurs during the match. It’s called ‘going the biff’.

This is of interest mainly to Finbar I think – we are now one week away from President Blair’s third term. The Tories campaign has been so unsuccessful they have just resorted to shouting “liar, liar, pants on fire” at Tony all the time about Iraq. Tricky game by them as they did and still do support the war – it’s all about the legal justification for it and what Tony said about that. It’s a hard line to exploit and it’s bad news for them as it means the debate on the issues has been lost. They trail in even the most optimistic poll by a margin that would only halve labours huge majority.

Personally I have found Mr Blair a huge disappointment in his second term – he really should not use the term ‘labour’ to describe his middle class satiating party. But even so I would vote for him ahead of the Thatcher disciple Mr Howard, who tried to bring in the poll tax as local government minister and had pregnant women handcuffed whilst giving birth when he was home secretary. Tony is the lesser of two evils certainly.

That doesn’t mean he is getting my vote by the way – but Mr Howard certainly will not.

	29-04-2005 14:23									#264
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quote: Out of interest do players indulge in ‘flaming ****holes’ in France? It’s one of the stupidest rugby games I have ever seen – last to put out the flames wins.

No. The only place I saw such stuff was England. And one of them managed to burn himself. We Frenhchmen were saying to each others that these rosbiffs are decidedly silly.
The only kind of initiation rugby rite I indulged in was drinking a lot of a horrible mixture and then running straight towards the toilets to get rid of it. One flanker didn't do the last part, and ended the day with more alcohol than blood in the veins, and a really nice headache on the day after.

	30-04-2005 04:14									#265
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quote: Originally posted by Havak My cult of personality numbers two. I must be worthy for truly I am a leader amongst men. Always first to the bar (seldom first to pay).

We allow minor flaws in a leader, so that's all right.

quote: I guess I want to ask you why should it be protected (tradition and PC do not convince me at all � very �Tory� arguments both), why should the opposition even have to watch it if they don�t want to? And why are the ABs allowed to do it immediately pre-match in other nations home grounds? Level playing fields not acceptable or something?

The bottom line is that the haka has become part of the rugby marketing package and it's being protected by the IRB. Which is nonsense, but that's the way it is in the modern rugby world of big bucks and marketing.

Yes, I've been following your election campaign with great interest. I find it absolutely incredible that the Tories remain so far behind in spite of Blair's assorted (and very serious) credibility problems. Obviously an indictment of the Tories' impotence and incompetence.

They're in a tricky spot re the war. In the same way that the opposition has been here. Blair and (our) Howard did exactly the same thing - very selectively used data to justify something they'd already decided anyway. It wouldn't have mattered what evidence there was against going to war, they were both going if Bush went. And their defence, now, is that they were using information they believed to be correct at the time. It's a standard defence against the lie accusation - if I believed it to be true, it can't have been a lie, because a lie is stating something you know to be untrue. Which, of course, is semantics. The stuff of politics.

(Our) Howard hasn't run into Blair's latest problem - the subsequently amended Attorney General's advice that the war was illegal. That should have hurt Blair because it reveals the deliberate manipulation that was going on. But, ultimately, neither Blair nor (our) Howard have really suffered politically because, thankfully for the troops and their families, neither has suffered battlefield casualties. Well, there have been some Brit casualties, but not many. And, while we have lost a couple of people via terrible accidents, there have been no Australian battle casualties. If either the Brits or the Australians had (perish the thought) lost any troops in numbers, I think Blair and (our) Howard might be far less comfortable than they are.

It has been interesting to see the influence of our Mr Crosby on the Tory campaign. The heavy-handed attempts to target and exploit fears re immigrants, etc, is a reworked version of what he did here in a couple of elections. It worked here because this is a very conservative population with a vein of racism running through it. I suspect that the Brit voting population is, on the whole, with some obvious exceptions, a bit more sophisticated. And comfortable with their lot, to boot.

	30-04-2005 04:16									#266
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare No. The only place I saw such stuff was England. And one of them managed to burn himself. We Frenhchmen were saying to each others that these rosbiffs are decidedly silly.

Your decision to watch and not take part was a good one!

quote: The only kind of initiation rugby rite I indulged in was drinking a lot of a horrible mixture and then running straight towards the toilets to get rid of it. One flanker didn't do the last part, and ended the day with more alcohol than blood in the veins, and a really nice headache on the day after.

Which proves that hookers are more intelligent than flankers.

	30-04-2005 07:12									#267
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quote: Originally posted by Havak No one else has tried to introduce a haka type �dance� for away games � but the problem is that teams have been refused to right to do anything away from home. Australia are the notable example.

I thought that was the point I was trying to make. The haka is a challenge. A wardance. Pulling out a banjo before the start for a singalong was funny the first time, I'll give them that, but I don't think anyone would want to see it before each and every game ...

quote: Most of the other teams are more concerned about the protective cocoon that has been placed around the Haka � and the RFU certainly complained when the 10 metre rule was brought in. It annoys me too � if players want to get in the face of the haka I see no problem with that. I guess I want to ask you why should it be protected (tradition and PC do not convince me at all � very �Tory� arguments both), why should the opposition even have to watch it if they don�t want to? And why are the ABs allowed to do it immediately pre-match in other nations home grounds? Level playing fields not acceptable or something?

I think I see where your argument is coming from now.
Last Saturday, ticketless and despondent, Havak wanders down to the local park seeking a place of peace and quiet to consume his regulation pork pie and even more regulation pint (keg?).
Our Havak is rudely interrupted by the onset of the semi-final between the far-East Leicester Tykes and the not-quite-so-far-East Leicester Tots for the East Leicester Under-8's championship.
The captain of the Tots throws a temper tantrum after being told to pull up his socks before the start of the game to match the immaculate Tykes.
The captain of the Tykes then calls him a Mummy's boy and the Tots, lacking the wits to counter this mortal insult, run in and start a punch-up getting half of them sent off before the game begins.
The Tot-captains mummy then begins a campaign to abolish all socks worn at Under-8's rugby matches.

The moral of the story?
Get your act together and make up your own haka you lazy plonker and stop taking the easy way out trying to abolish ours!
Either that or take up another sport where they disallow such things.
I don't recall the all-whites having a haka for example?

	01-05-2005 05:05									#268
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I caught up with a replay of the Leicester-Toulouse HC SF yesterday. Missed the start, thus missed the first Toulouse try and the flubbed Leicester effort. Beyond that, Leicester made a terrible mess of the first half while Toulouse bided their time. In the second half, Leicester turned into a lumbering outfit lacking creative options, or were made to look as such by Toulouse's shift into overdrive. Goodness knows why Leicester chose to kick the ball away so often in the second half.

Yes, the first Toulouse try that I saw (their second) was from a forward pass. But it didn't make the try. The try was on anyway thanks to excellent counter-attack. There were forward passes everywhere through the match. The lead up to Goode's penalty kick right on half time, that he missed, involved a blatant forward ball in the Leicester midfield. I think it might have involved Gibson. Who, I think, overall, was probably Leicester's best on the day. Toulouse looked very very good in overdrive.

Waratahs 41 -d- Highlanders 20

Very very impressive Waratahs' effort against what has been S12's strongest defence this season and, the Bulls aside, probably the comp's best-performed pack. Ewen McKenzie, Waratahs coach, has certainly changed this team's psyche. They played tough, aggressive, creative, pressure rugby. The pack more than matched the Highlanders', and Phil Waugh led a wonderfully mobile back row that punished the Highlanders all over the park. I think I've noted before that the Waratahs and Crusaders are the two best teams in the comp. Barring surprises, which is a dangerous thing to say, it will be an interesting contest between them. The Crusaders can be devastating in attack - as they've proved over the last couple of weeks - but their once mighty defence isn't what it was. They've been leaking a lot of tries. The Waratahs, on the other hand, have developed tremendous defence. I wonder whether the S12 finals will get an airing on Italian TV!

Hurricanes 49 -d- Brumbies 37

Fairly even first half, with the Brumbies combining better than they have for a month, seeming to have developed some of their old rhythm. OTOH, the Hurricanes weren't at their best in the first half. In the second half, when the Hurricans got into gear, the Brumbies were ruthlessly exposed. The final scoreline flattered them with a couple of late consolation tries. Without Gregan and Larkham, there is neither authority nor direction, either in attack or defence. Perhaps to be expected, given the skills and experience of those two. Matt Giteau, who has been filling in for Larkham at #10, remains the master's apprentice. For all his obvious skills, Giteau, at this point in his career, lacks Larkham's vision and organisational capacity. Of course, few possess Larkham's talents in those areas. So, in terms of the finals, the Brumbies' season is over. The wicked injury toll makes it hard to determine where they stand under the new coach. Next year should tell the story.

EDIT. And I notice Quins are to be relegated. Oh, and I think Leicester played Wasps.

Last edited by finbar on 01-05-2005 at 05:11

	02-05-2005 04:01									#269
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

Quins' CEO:

quote: A fierce critic of the relegation system, Evans expects similar scenarios to play out in the future after a dramatic final weekend of fixtures. "This is the first time a club has been relegated on 38 points and I think it will be very similar next season," he said. "Maybe there will be one or two new partners at the dance but it will be the same situation. "The way the league is structured means there will always be five or six sides battling it out. It's like musical chairs - who is ever left standing after 22 matches loses out. "Gloucester and Newcastle are the two worst teams on current form but they're safe."

Perhaps you could explain his thinking to me, Havak. Beyond sour grapes. He's a fierce critic of the relegation system? He would prefer to keep the premier league a closed shop? I remember you saying there were some who wanted that. Gloucester and Newcastle are the two worst teams on current form but they're safe? What is "current form"? The "current form" is that Quins lost a match they had to win.

	02-05-2005 06:58									#270
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Yikes. I just noticed the Tigers-Wasps scoreline ...
Methinks our Havak may have a wee bit of a hangover ...