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One_Mean_Rabbit
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Anyone who really believes we purposely fired on an Ally, needs to get their heads checked. SERIOUSLY. Until the facts come out, it means nothing to debate on this. At worst, it was a complete mistake by an American Soldier and he will be reprimanded severely. At best, the driver was a complete tool and has their blood on his/her hands.
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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people are just saying you're too trigger happy. |
Wow, that almost sounds like a stereotype Euro's accuse American's of throwing around...Are you trying to argue that we are all trigger happy, or just a few?
The autopsy shows that the guy died with ONE bullet. Not riddled with them. Also, the your Communications Minister Maurizio Gasparri, was quoted as saying...
"On the other hand, we must control — but not block — the presence of civilians and journalists, who must observe rules and behavior to reduce the risks."
Fact is, is that a warzone is a mighty mighty dangerous place to be. Her kidnapping proves that point. And in a dangerous place, you must observe the rules and procedures to remain as safe as you can be. That would include obeying any commands given by people in charge of a checkpoint.
And while I can understand you being in a hurry, it makes sense to be extra safe given the situation over there.
It appears this will have no effect on Italian troops there. That's good, because running away like the Spainards did is just silly. You investigate, you punish any wrong doings if any, you correct the mistakes made, and you keep going.
This woman is obviously either hyperactive and/or severely biased. Reading her remarks smacks of conspiracy lunatics...
Last edited by One_Mean_Rabbit on 06-03-2005 at 22:41
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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Indeed! Let's analyze some other quotes from her...
"The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostages, everybody knows that. So I don't see why I should rule out that I could have been the target."
"There was no bright light, no signal." She also said the car was traveling at "regular speed."
"I remember only fire," she wrote in Il Manifesto, which fiercely opposed the war in Iraq. "At that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier."
Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then "Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me."
So, she was watching intently the going-ons of the checkpoint while celebrating happily? The last two paragraphs sound like she is writing a Fictional Novel!
"Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captors' words, when they warned her "to be careful because the Americans don't want you to return."
Oooooh, yes! Now we are taking the very people who kidnapped her word's for truth. Riiight.
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:36
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quote:
Wow, that almost sounds like a stereotype Euro's accuse American's of throwing around...Are you trying to argue that we are all trigger happy, or just a few?
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The troops involved specifically, who are supposed to represent their nation.
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The autopsy shows that the guy died with ONE bullet. Not riddled with them. Also, the your Communications Minister Maurizio Gasparri, was quoted as saying...
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My communications minister? 
There's been an autopsy already?
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Fact is, is that a warzone is a mighty mighty dangerous place to be. Her kidnapping proves that point. And in a dangerous place, you must observe the rules and procedures to remain as safe as you can be. That would include obeying any commands given by people in charge of a checkpoint.
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Which is saying absolutely nothing, since it presumes the American's account of events and not the Italians, whereas we are discussing which one is true, so in effect your conclusion is little more than your premise  .
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because running away like the Spainards did is just silly
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So how was the Spanish withdrawal "silly"?
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This woman is obviously either hyperactive and/or severely biased. Reading her remarks smacks of conspiracy lunatics...
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Elaborate?
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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The troops involved specifically, who are supposed to represent their nation. |
Pretty broad brush there...It's cool, I am just glad that Americans don't have a monopoly on stereotyping...
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My communications minister? |
Italy's...
Doctors said he was struck in the temple by a single round and died instantly.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4323209.stm
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Which is saying absolutely nothing, since it presumes the American's account of events and not the Italians, whereas we are discussing which one is true, so in effect your conclusion is little more than your premise |
Actually, it's pretty much parroting what Italy's Communication Minister said...
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So how was the Spanish withdrawal "silly"? |
It was due to an ultimatum by terrorists. This is pretty basic.
Already showed by quoting her directly.
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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I'm inclined to belive our boys rather than the reporter, but as I understand it, the investigation is preliminary in any event. |
While I would like to believe ours over all other facts, there are several instances of some of our boys acting wrong. So, until there is an investigation, no one really knows. However, given the few facts already out, it doesn't seem like the troops saw who is was, and then decided to assassinate them...
As any good conspirationalist can tell you, if we wanted her dead, she wouldn't be around telling stories anymore. It's much easier to lie about a situation when the supposed victim isn't alive telling her side.
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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warzone? i thought it was a sovereign country which just had elections |
Your jab implies that both cannot exist together??? Are you confused?
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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realising that is one thing. saying it was the dead driver's fault is another...... |
You avoided my question while making up a strawman. And you implied I blamed the driver. Both an intellectual no-no.
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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i noted it cause i a post arguying that the recent "elections" was one of many good things to have happened in the ME recently.... |
You're one of those "debaters". Instead of answering the question in play, you continue to try and change the subject. And while I would gladly argue that the elections were one of the good things, I think that any intellectual debate would be lost on you. Because then you would argue that the sky is really a lighter shade of blue or something else not on subject.
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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What is pretty basic is that you don't know why we withdrew from Iraq. |
It is very clear. But please try and rationalize your surrender. It will be amusing to be sure!
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Whaleboy
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Please make all cheques payable to Whaleboy
Jan 2003
time: 05:36
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Pretty broad brush there...It's cool, I am just glad that Americans don't have a monopoly on stereotyping...
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No-one's stereotyping anyone, except perhaps young soldiers. It would be a characteristic I'd expect of any soldier be they British, German, Italian or (god help me) French.
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It was due to an ultimatum by terrorists. This is pretty basic.
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I was under the impression it was due to a government being voted in that was representative of the general disdain for the war in Spain  . It seems reasonable that the Madrid attacks focussed that attention, not to mention the previous PM's claims that it was ETA.
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Attacks are down.. so yes it is a good thing... and it had a great effect on the rest of the middle east. Bush's policies have been a great success now that results are materalizing.
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Really? Looks to me like an escalation of the regions instabilities. I'm amused that any incidental move toward democracy is used to vindicate a war in which over 100'000 people died. Yes that was a fair trade...
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Thanks for the laugh, commies. Don't quit your day job.
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But where will you get your love?
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You avoided my question while making up a strawman. And you implied I blamed the driver. Both an intellectual no-no.
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If you're claiming that the car was travelling too fast and not acknowledging signals, then it's not like you're blaming the giant pixie smoking a joint on the roof now are you? 
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Instead of answering the question in play, you continue to try and change the subject. And while I would gladly argue that the elections were one of the good things, I think that any intellectual debate would be lost on you. Because then you would argue that the sky is really a lighter shade of blue or something else not on subject.
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Sorry, what fallacy has he committed? You claim a strawman but you don't show where that is... a common ploy of people who pretend to themselves that they can debate in an attempt to avoid a counter . Try again, this time actually making a point.
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It is very clear. But please try and rationalize your surrender. It will be amusing to be sure!
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Fez has had a baby!! 
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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No-one's stereotyping anyone, except perhaps young soldiers. |
That statement alone is funny! I NEVER do X, except on Tues.
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If you're claiming that the car was travelling too fast and not acknowledging signals, |
Only quoted what an Italian official said. Have always said we will not know until investigation.
*holds Whaleboy's hand*
Sonny: Fact is, is that a warzone is a mighty mighty dangerous place to be.
MarkG: warzone? i thought it was a sovereign country which just had elections
He didn't tell a lie, just was trying to avoid the point that in a dangerous place, you have to be extra careful. Which is teh point of this entire thread, not rehashing Iraq War pros and cons.
I have already made my point, but obviously you aren't for hearing it so much as trying to make up my arguments for me.
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06-03-2005 21:32
So true...so very true.
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