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Mordoch
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Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:36
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Which suggets she's not thinking very rationally. The US has access to plenty of Iraqi Soviet made weapons. If the goal has been assassination, the US troops could have hit the car hit with 50 caliber machine gun bullets to get it to stop, then hit it with an RPG, and finally moved in with AK 47s to make sure everyone was dead. They then could have the same soldiers come back later after getting rid of their Russian made weaponry, and "find" that the car was ambushed by Iraqi insurgents. Clearly that would have been the way to do things if you actually wanted to assasinate the individual, and would have avoided the current political consequences. Its also inexplicable that they didn't fire more bullets to make sure the reporter was dead if this was an actual assassination attempt.
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Mordoch
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Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
"the US troops could have hit the car hit with 50 caliber machine gun bullets to get it to stop, then hit it with an RPG, and finally moved in with AK 47s to make sure everyone was dead."
US Troops have AK-47s? |
Yes they do. The US has confiscated large quantities of Iraqi weaponry, most of it Soviet made. Many US tank crew that are ordinarily using just pistols were definately using Ak-47s for a time since they gave them far more firepower and there was plentiful confiscated ammunition around. So making it look like an insurgent attack would have been quite easy for the US if assassinating the reporter had been their goal.
This is why you have to dismiss the possibility of this being an assassination attempt no matter how badly you think of the US. The US had better ways to pull of an assassination if that had been their goal. Remotely triggering what appears to be a typical insurgent IED when the car was driving by would have been another option where the US would avoid any significant political consequences and could have blamed the insurgents.
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One_Mean_Rabbit
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quote:
US Troops have AK-47s? |
He explained here...
quote:
The US has access to plenty of Iraqi Soviet made weapons. |
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Mordoch
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Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Giancarlo
No, the US would use weapons that are supplied to them. The M-4 carbine is the weapon of choice for tank crews since it is small and compact, the AK-47 is NOT. Additionally, the US military has a bigger supply of 5.56MM rounds, not 7.62MM rounds. I dismiss your speculation. |
You're seemingly utterly missing the point. On the tank crew discussion, here's an article from the AP that I read awhile ago on the subject, confirming my point about US tank crews equiping themselves with Ak-47s.
http://vikingphoenix.com/public/ron...ry/ak47iraq.htm
The pertinent point is only 2 members of the 4 man tank crew get M-4s, the others are issued pistols. Here's a quote from the article about how plentiful of the 7.62 ammunition was in Iraq relatively recently.
quote:
Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK — they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.
"It's plentiful," said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16. |
Just to summerize my main point one more time, the US has access to alot of seized insurgent weaponry. If this had been an assassination attempt, the US could have easily equipped some US soldiers with these seized insurgent weapons and then ambushed the car, making sure everyone inside was killed. After the weaponry was disposed of, the same soldiers could stumble on the scene and "discover" the car had been attacked by insurgents. The only difficulty at all with this strategy would be finding soldiers able to use the Russian weapons effectively who they could trust to keep what they did secret. However if necessary there are definately CIA opperatives with the necessary experience who could have pulled of the job. The US simply had better options than what happened if this had been an assassination attempt.
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Mordoch
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Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
Uh, even if what the US said was true -- contested now by the Italian reporter -- there is such a thing called "warning shot." |
Which the US troops said they did in fact do first but the car didn't stop. The reporter says she didn't see or hear warning shots, but its actually quite possible she just missed it, especially since she was in the back and apparently M-16 shots are not as loud as you might think they would be.
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Mordoch
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Denver, Colorado
Jan 2002
time: 05:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
The reporter also said the US troops knew that they (she and escorts) were going to the airport to fly out. |
Actually to the best of my knowledge she DIDN'T say that. She said she ASSUMED they knew because they had already passed through other checkpoints and she thought they should have let everyone up ahead know they were coming. We also have reports that the Italians refrained from letting the US know in advance they were coming, before they sent the car on the road. Furthermore, the reporter is just about the worse source in this case as far as determining whether the US knew they were coming. I'd be interesting in what the Italian intelligence agents in the car say about that.
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techumseh
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of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:36
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quote:
Italians grieve for hostage 'hero'
By Tamsin Smith
BBC News, Rome
Calipari is to be honoured with a state funeral
Italians queued quietly in the rain, waiting for their chance to file past the coffin of Nicola Calipari.
His body lies in state inside the marble Victor Emmanuel moment until Monday's funeral.
People reached out to touch the coffin draped in an Italian flag and stood still for a moment, before walking back down the steps in silence.
Occasionally there was an outburst of raw emotion.
"It's a crime!" shouted one woman leaving the monument.
Her fur coat quivered with rage and her face was wet with tears.
"More blood for American oil, but we only notice because now it's Italian blood!"
But generally the mood was muted and sombre.
'Twice a hero'
"Goodbye Nicola, you are the pride of all Italians," read one floral tribute laid on the steps beneath the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier.
You can't kill people for nothing
Giuseppe Chiummo
Mourner
"I wanted to come here because this man is twice a hero," said Paolo Daniele from Rome.
"He's a hero because he lost his life saving another. It's even more important than last time when we came here for our soldiers who died in Nassirya [in November 2003], because the work of this intelligence agent was peaceful is to save hostages' lives."
"A last goodbye to my countryman, that's why I'm here," explained Giuseppe Chiummo, a 24-year-old soldier.
"I'm so angry about this event because its incredible that those Americans didn't realise it was an allied convoy. You can't kill people for nothing."
"Nicola Calipari is a hero for my country," said his girlfriend, Orella, "but I'm very shocked at what happened and want to know the truth."
Price worth paying?
The demand for more answers is growing louder.
Giuliana Sgrena's harrowing account of the shooting written in Il Manifesto has inflamed suspicions and highlighted the information vacuum.
Many Italians are questioning the country's Iraq policy
She suggests that US forces deliberately targeted her because Washington opposed Italy's policy of dealing with kidnappers.
Parliamentary Relations Minister Carlo Giovanardi also said that he did not believe the American version of events.
The shooting has sparked diplomatic tension between Italy and America and has put pressure on Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi to take a tough stance with his close friend George Bush.
"We need to wake up to the fact that being America's ally in Iraq is a dangerous business," said Marco, holding a picture of the freed journalist.
"You get hurt no matter how friendly or faithful you are, which begs the question: Is it really worth it?"
Throughout the evening the steady flow of visitors continued to pay their respects to Italy's national hero.
Lines of umbrellas, throwing oversized shadows up the marble facade of the monument.
On Monday Italy bows its head for a state funeral but is still asking "Why?".
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07-03-2005 03:51
A large portion of news articles in the US come from this source. You might have a very occassional instance of outright innacuracy, but generally you're talking about cases where someone is rushing to write or update a breaking news article, which is not the case here. Its certainly generalyl viewed as a reliable source of news that tries to avoid outright bias in their articles.
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