05-03-2005 14:55									#1
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For easy reference: our City Founding Plans.

Of course, this needs to be updated as we move along.

Current (old) plan:

Attachment: babylon3900location1.jpg
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Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 05-03-2005 at 15:15

	05-03-2005 15:15									#2
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Added a few possible sites in the NE: black, gold and orange.

The proposed order:

1. Magenta site (pops the hut)
   
2. Yellow site (good tiles; coastal site)
   
3. Green site (silks / wheat)
   
4. Red site
   
5. Blue site
   

Attachment: babylon3500location1.jpg
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Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 05-03-2005 at 15:22

	06-03-2005 00:49									#3
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I think wheat should be prioritized. The hut settlement will have bad corruption and should not be nearly so much of a priority IMO. Not to mention it has no food resources, and precious few 2-food tiles until we get some irrigation done up there.

	19-03-2005 07:24									#4
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PoA should complete its settler in 3100 BC, so we need to iron out where that settler is going. And the Inanna settler won't be far behind.

I'm thinking one should go 4-4-7 of Babylon and the other should go further south by the wheat - location TBD depending on what Abel finds, though either 2-1 or 2-1-1-1 looks good at the moment.

	21-03-2005 19:46									#5
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PoA's settler should go pop the goody hut by founding. Escort with it's defenders. I have seen barbs coming out of huts poped by settler founding.

Sure we've told our neighbors not to pop the hut, but let's not tempt them. And the site isn't that badly corrupt, other than the second shield won't do much good until a 3rd shield arrives.

We need to clear that inland sea camp with a military unit to explore for whales prior to IT's settler being built.

	21-03-2005 22:45									#6
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There isn't a single 2fpt tile by any of the adjacent goody hut sites except the sugar unless we use irrigation, and that would take a 2-spt tile away from PoA. We have far better sites, like the red one on BFM's map, which will be of above-average use even before tile improvements.

Also, I was of the impression too that settler founding couldn't trigger barbs... if it can, why don't we just pop it with a bowman or something and be done with it? No reason to use a city founding if that won't be safe.

Last edited by Kloreep on 22-03-2005 at 09:13

	22-03-2005 09:12									#7
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We need a movement, if not a direction, for the PoA settler for 3100. I suggest 3-3-2 towards Babylon, and it can head from there either west toward the bonii out there, or south/southwest toward the wheat. However, of the 3 people who have pitched in here so far, north out of PoA to a site by the hut seems to be favored 2-1.

Frankly, I think this would be a very bad decision. There are no extra food sources, no extra shield sources up there; it would just be +2 fpt (worse without proper tile improvement) and 1 shield a tile before corruption.

Just one more thing before I end my post. Where would you put our next city on the below map?













In case you couldn't see it at first glance, the image is doctored to remove the hut north of PoA. Which is how the map will be just as soon as we pop it. No bonus to the city production, no good food source... just a one-time deal. Unless we win what IIRC are <50% odds and get a tech, it's not going to be much of a hoot. Our 4th city, built with the investment of ~25% of our precious population, will be.

	30-03-2005 04:21									#8
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Inanna's Throne builds a settler next turn (2900 BC). Where do we send it? I'm thinking 4-2-1 initially, and then on to a site by the wheat.

	30-03-2005 12:35									#9
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Go to the best spot in the vicinity of Inanna's Throne (so it doesn't have to move too far).

I suggest the Yellow spot, onto the bonus tile (is that tobacco?), next to the location of the former Barb camp.

It will also bring the other bonus tile into play for Inanna, or for itself.

The next settler - hopefully we can switch Bablyon to one - can settle in the SW area; onto the green or blue site.

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 30-03-2005 at 16:39

	01-04-2005 08:42									#10
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I moved the settler south. Sorry, but it was a 1:1 tie and I really think we need that wheat ASAP.

I'd like to propose the current settler and the one coming from Babylon soon go to the following sites (the one already moving would go to the wheat):

Attachment: citymap.2900.jpg
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	01-04-2005 14:26									#11
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That's not according to the Plan above. However, your proposition has some nice advantages. Since the good land ends in the south quite quickly, we need to come up with a more sparse city grid. And that's what you did!

I suppose the site next to the wheat is on the river?

I suggest we settle onto the tobacco E-SE-E of Babylon (equal to the Yellow site in the plan above), and onto the silks S-SE-SE-SE of Babylon OR onto the tile NW of it (equal to the alternative green site in the plan).

This would complete the city grid in that part of our lands.

	01-04-2005 19:46									#12
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Plan as of 2900BC below.

Settle order:

1. *Blue site (settler from Inanna, which is now in Babylon)
2. Green site (settle this from Babylon)
3. *Red site (settle this from Plains of Ashur)
4. Yellow site
5. *Grey or Gold site

* = sites with fresh water

Attachment: babylon2900location1.jpg
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	01-04-2005 20:28									#13
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Cool

	03-04-2005 01:11									#14
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Looks good to me, except I think red, and perhaps yellow, should come before green. Green doesn't have much advantage besides sharing the wheat (if at the filled-in site) and that isn't much of an issue until Blue can build a granary; Green's only other feature is getting us that silks source, but Blue will already get the other one.

Otherwise

	03-04-2005 04:48									#15
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Just saying I am in learning mode: and I am learning a lot but not enough to voice considered opinion.

	11-04-2005 21:39									#16
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We may want to define a "core" of cities, and stop REXing after those cities have been founded. Those cities would have to have good land, so we can get them to, say, size 6-8 or so. Also we can improve these cities, before settling any more.

My proposal for the core:

Babylon, Inanna's Throne, Plains of Ashur, Felinicity, Garden of Tammuz, Yellow Site, Green Site (7 cities).

	12-04-2005 07:07									#17
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And red site too. Yep, I agree we should take a breather after those three (so only two more setters to go); our military is stretched thin, we could use some temples, and we desperately need to start build workers as our pop units instead of settlers.

Heck, I think we could even delay green site until sometime soon to Tammuz's completion of a granary. It's not a very good site except for the wheat-sharing potential, and that won't be the case if we go for the non-solid dot.

	12-04-2005 12:15									#18
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You're right. I Forgot the red site. 8 cities it will be.

	13-04-2005 21:39									#19
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I think the Green site should be included as the last of the REX sites because of the luxary. But shift it onto the luxary itself so it can grow (post Harbor) Plus the shift allows a hill that would otherwise go to waste to be worked.

(I'm assuming there's no fish / whales just south of the screen shot in that area)

	13-04-2005 22:28									#20
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Nope, no fish/whales there.

As for the green site: The main reason to build it I see, especially if it's not going to share the wheat, is because it's a low-corruption site. I'm not sure what the value of the luxury is since we already have a silks inside Tammuz's radius.

	13-04-2005 23:50									#21
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn I think the Green site should be included as the last of the REX sites because of the luxary. But shift it onto the luxary itself so it can grow (post Harbor)

What exactly do you mean by this?

The green site is already included in the REX list.

	15-04-2005 19:57									#22
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On the luxary itself, faster access to the luxary perhaps. For evenuall trade purposes. But really it's locating corruption in the proper locations that's driving this, removing the luxary wouldn't affect my analysis.

On corruption, actually the main green resulting city rank is a bit too low for it's future food production. Shifting it onto the luxary will keep it from marginally hurting Plains of Ashur, the red site, the yellow site, and the blue site. [All of which are better cities]

Remember that distance to capital and resulting city rank in civ 3 for corruption purposes is using classic geometry.

Distance to capital in order of city rank.

Babylon : 0 [treated as 1]
Ianna's Throne : 3
Old Green site: SQRT (10) aprox 3.2
Plains of Ashur : SQRT (13) aprox 3.6 first built, so wins the tie
Potamia: SQRT(13) aprox 3.6
Yellow: SQRT(13) approx 3.6
Garden of Tummiz: SQRT(17) aprox 4.1 wins tie
New Green site: SQRT (17) aprox 4.1
Felincity: 2 *SQRT(13) aprox 7.2

And yes, I similarly sugest that the blue city could better use a lower city rank than shifted green, which is why I think the blue should be built before shifted green.

Last edited by joncnunn on 18-04-2005 at 19:08

	16-04-2005 00:00									#23
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You're right, we have a ton of distance-4 cities. And that green site definitely isn't the cream of the crop. Let's move it to the luxury. Once out of Despotism, Green will be a perfect +5 fpt pump anyway and won't be sharing its wheat.

Also, blue has already been built. Here's a map from 2590 BC, with the two remaining "initial REX" sites marked on it.

Attachment: citymap.2590.initialrex.jpg
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	22-04-2005 19:02									#24
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In light of Ank-Mordoc aquiring the horses NW of us, we may want to move up aquiring the horses NE of us to the top of the list.

The black icon looks like the best location for it. (9-9-6 of Inanna's Throne on the plains)

Distance : SQRT(37) aprox 6.1, closer than Felicity.

The Iron is close enough for existing cities to get it into our cultural boundary via temples before we need it so we don't have to worry about it.

	23-04-2005 01:28									#25
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I agree with adding BFM's black site to the initial REX list

	27-04-2005 11:29									#26
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No - that would just be wasting a settler, while (at this moment) overstretching ourselves.

Better is to negotiate a border deal in the east, and connect the horses later. Do we really need them in times of peace?

	27-04-2005 18:32									#27
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Possesion is 9/10ths of the law.

Plus based on Bloody Oath's proposed border, I think we're going to need a few Horse Men just to keep the peace.

quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster No - that would just be wasting a settler, while (at this moment) overstretching ourselves. Better is to negotiate a border deal in the east, and connect the horses later. Do we really need them in times of peace?

	28-04-2005 03:48									#28
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Horsemen are key to our commitment to the war against DR. I need to have some idea of how soon we can build the city - connect the horses, and get some horsemen built. As Klo and I have discussed elsewhere, I over-committed ourselves in terms of timing, but the overall objective remains teh same. And as jon has pointed out, we may well need the military strength for other reasons.

	28-04-2005 11:01									#29
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OK - but let's focus on our planned core cities first!

	28-04-2005 16:30									#30
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster OK - but let's focus on our planned core cities first!

If we do that then I need to tell Euphorica and BOH that we will not be able to support them in their push against DR.

So - if I may suggest - we need to answer the strategic question first - and that will dictate some of the growth tactics.