15-03-2005 03:09									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Sava so by your reasoning, Bush's tax cuts could be farm subsidies if people used them to buy food...

1) I'm sure you know that tax cuts are not govt funding.

2) I doubt if they were used to buy food. Money can be used to do all kinds of things. Food stamps can only be used to buy food.

	15-03-2005 03:10									#152
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Food stamps in theory can be used on agricultural goods from outside the US, and hence are NOT a direct subsidy.

I know many people for whom food stamps make a significant part of their income, insofar as it allows them to use whatever income they actually make on things other than food, like rent and clothing.

	15-03-2005 03:15									#153
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this farm subsidy discussion seems to be only directd at the rich farmers. How do cuts in the poor farmers affect the public? Well I do believe those families will Gee I dunno need food stamps.

	15-03-2005 03:15									#154
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious 1) I'm sure you know that tax cuts are not govt funding.

indirectly, they are...

quote: 2) I doubt if they were used to buy food. Money can be used to do all kinds of things. Food stamps can only be used to buy food.

but not all "food" comes from American farmers.

	15-03-2005 12:58									#155
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski I dont think anybody answered my question. Does the goverment pay farmers to not grow a crop. And just FYI I dont think the ag budget is the one that needs adjusting, If you want to know I think its the aid given to other countries that needs adjusting. For one why does the US always end up being the largest monetary support for all others.

Yes. It's called the Conservation Reserve Program. It basically pays farmers to take ecologically sensitive land out of production and put it aside. In exchange for "x" amount of money per acre (it's generally not much), farmers cannot farm said land or graze it.

Some CRP land has been turned over to hunting, particularly pheasants, as such lands generally offer great cover for the game birds. But mostly it just sits there because it's ecologically sensitive. Only in dire emergencies can ranchers and/or farmers use CRP acres — for example, a drought, where their usual fields are no longer good enough, cattle can be turned loose for a pass or two over CRP acres. Such land can also be used for baling in those circumstances.

Gatekeeper

	15-03-2005 17:11									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Now PH, I never got PWNed this badly...

You've been pawned worse twice already in this thread, and I haven't even read the whole thing.

	15-03-2005 22:05									#157
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You almost got me there Sava. ; )

	15-03-2005 22:10									#158
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Ill have to say this for PH. I dont see where he was pwned at all. He read the article and stated what he got from that article. I quoted a section that supported his argument.

	15-03-2005 22:14									#159
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Le sigh.

Cuts in food programs for the poor are getting support in Congress as an alternative to President Bush's idea of slicing billions of dollars from the payments that go to large farm operations.

quote: Originally posted by DanS This is a dumb article because it overstates the amount of support there is in the congress for cutting food stamps. On the other hand, there's a lot of support (even from congressmen from farm states!) for cutting subsidies. The congressmen with the minority position (cut food stamps) are trying their best to throw a wrench in the works. The article makes it sound as if the minority is actually the majority.

	15-03-2005 22:16									#160
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Now can we please move on.

	15-03-2005 22:24									#161
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I see you failed to see where bush proposed to cut foodstamps from some families in that article. And last time I checked it is the poor who recieve the foodstamps. But yes lets move on

	15-03-2005 22:43									#162
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She has a point DD. She quoted a section of the article where Bush did indeed propose cutting food stamps for poor people.

	15-03-2005 22:49									#163
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin She has a point DD. She quoted a section of the article where Bush did indeed propose cutting food stamps for poor people.

Yes, this section:

quote: Senate Agriculture Committee Chairman Saxby Chambliss, R-Ga., said the $36 billion food stamp program is a good place to look for savings. "There's not the waste, fraud and abuse in food stamps that we used to see. ... That number is down to a little over 6 percent now," he said. "But there is a way, just by utilizing the president's numbers, that we can come up with a significant number there." Bush is proposing to withdraw food stamps for certain families already receiving other government assistance. The administration estimates that plan would remove more than 300,000 people from the rolls and save $113 million annually.

With a calm manner, mrs. Tuberski continues to PWN.

	15-03-2005 22:50									#164
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin She has a point DD.

I'm really beyond caring at this point about such a minor issue (PH made it a bigger issue than I did) over what appears now to be a very baddly written article. I thought the PH issue had died a page or so back anyway. I already stated my opinion on which of the 2 programs should be cut as well.

	15-03-2005 22:52									#165
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm really beyond caring at this point about such a minor issue over what appears now to be a very baddly written article. I thought the PH issue had died a page or so back anyway.

EDIT: wrong.

Doesn't matter if the article is badly written or incorrect or anything else. It's still what the article said admit that, and the PWNAGE would be over.

ACK!

	15-03-2005 22:59									#166
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Its called reading comprehension.

Obviously not a universal skill.

	15-03-2005 23:11									#167
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I'm really beyond caring at this point about such a minor issue (PH made it a bigger issue than I did) over what appears now to be a very baddly written article. I thought the PH issue had died a page or so back anyway. I already stated my opinion on which of the 2 programs should be cut as well.

Moving right along I wonder if you would still agree if it was a person in your family that needed food stamps and was already on medicaid because of lack of insurance. Could you sit back and watch them struggle with no food?

	15-03-2005 23:55									#168
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Depends. Do I like this person? The people on food stamps that come through my line seem to eat OK.

	15-03-2005 23:59									#169
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[QUOTE] Originally posted by DinoDoc
Depends. Do I like this person? [/QUOT

Do you have to like them to be concerned whether they are starving? Lets say for you yes you do Your favorite grandma on a fixed income with medicaid. Take her food stamps cause well hell the gov is keeping up with health insurance. Hell now all she have to do is go to the hospital for starvation.

	16-03-2005 00:04									#170
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quote: Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski Do you have to like them to be concerned whether they are starving?

I dislike a good portion of my family. But seriously, farm subsidies to large operations should be on the chopping block before this.

	16-03-2005 00:09									#171
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I dislike a good portion of my family.

While that is a personal decision on your part, most people dont. If i cant help someone in my family after their foostamps are taken away Id feel real bad whether I like them or not. Personal feelings of someone doesnt mean to put a harder strain on them. I believe when a person is down, he is down dont kick emm try and help them. Food stamps help a lot of needy people. Yes there is abuse but that number Ibeleive is way lower now.

	16-03-2005 00:11									#172
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Since your edit I agree on the cuts for farms but they cuts have to be fair and treat all farms differently and seperatly. What i mean is not so much for the poorer farmers as the richer ones.
The poor farmers that work hard might deserve these more then the rich ones.

Last edited by Mrs. Tuberski on 16-03-2005 at 01:59