13-03-2005 14:43									#1
	Should I get World of Warcraft?? Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

So....a little help from some of the experienced MMORPG people here at the OG is needed.

Basically I am having trouble deciding whether to get WoW when it becomes available again here in Denmark (which should be around mid-april). I know that some of you are inclined to say Yes, buy it, but I have some concerns which I would like for you to address:

1) My first and foremost concerns is about the whole party (or guild) concept. None of my friends are into gaming, and I would have to rely on casual internet acquaintances for playing, something which in my experience is very hard to schedule. So the question is: Can WoW be played alone (as in a party of one) and still be fun? What elements do I exclude myself from by playing alone? Is character development possible when playing alone, or do most opponents require a party to defeat?

2) My second concern ralate to my playing style. When playing any RPG, I almost never roleplay in the strict sense of the word. I develop my character. That's what is fun for me, and that's what I do. I like to get my character as mean and tough as possible, so that he can go out and kick some butt. That's where the fun is for me. How well is that represented in WoW? Can the game be played in this style? Or is roleplaying needed? (I guess choice of realm (server) is crucial here?)

3) My last concern is about my MMORPG experience. I am a total novice, and I am a bit worried that WoW is too hardcore to be my first MMORPG game. Any thoughts on that? Should I start out on PvE servers before moving on to PvP?

I hope you will address my questions seriously.

Asmodean

	13-03-2005 15:23									#2
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#2 and #3 are not a concern I'm sure. From what I heard WOW is not very hardcore. It's nothing compared to Everquest 1 or 2. Just compare the penalties for dying. Though I'm not sure about PVP, you may encounter some guys with power builds who may be pretty tough.

All I want to know is if I can play this game single player. I have a job, so I can afford the monthly payments now. I want a game I can play single player, but occasionally play in parties.

I don't want to take the thread away from you, but I'm also asking if I should buy the game. Everquest 2 just didn't hold my attention.

Yes I know I could always play a single player game. The only game that comes close in size and freedom is Morrowind. And I have played the hell out of that game and done nearly every quest available in that game and the expansions.

	13-03-2005 15:50									#3
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Asmo you just need to decide what floats your boat. If you can commit enough hours per month and want to try a MMORPG WoW is a good choice for you right now.

It is not that hardcore in terms of death penalties and levelling speed, and you can play solo, at least early on.

However you may want to reassess your motives there. If you want a good SP experience then why play WoW? There are better SP games you wont have to pay monthly fees for.

Don't worry, you'll find people in game to group with if you look whilst soloing the earlier levels, and that's way more fun.

And as for roleplaying, hehe, no one takes it seriously. Just avoid the RP servers.

	13-03-2005 16:40									#4
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I see your point, Spikey. I am used to SP, and would like to try MMO, so that is no problem. My problem is, as I wrote, finding people to play with, that fit my schedule to some degree.

Hours is not really a problem for me. I can devote the hours. My problem is with long sessions. As a father, I can't really play for long hours continually. I need to be able to leave the game for maybe half an hour, and then come back and pkay a couple of hours, and then leave again for some time. Children need attention too. That's why I foresee difficulty. If I group up with somebody, they would have to accept that.

Asmodean

	13-03-2005 17:05									#5
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MMORPGs are fun. And WoW and EQ2 are equally good choices. As for roleplaying servers or not... I dare to differ here. I also focus on developing my character rather than to roleplay. However, roleplay servers in my experience have the more mature population, the good dedicated vs. leet dood ratio is usually higher than on non-RP servers. This is especially important, when you are new to the game and need help from other players. And mostly the depth of roleplaying on these servers varies from low to heavy. Being a low level roleplayer (that's all you need) is not hard at all. That's exactly what I am doing.

	14-03-2005 00:54									#6
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I may get this game, as I've said, I've played all the good single player rpg's.

There really aren't enough game companies making single player rpg's anymore. Everything is a mmorpg.

	14-03-2005 01:10									#7
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Spikey, I assume you play Wow? What's the overall experience of the game?

	14-03-2005 01:39									#8
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Don't forget to consider FFXI, if you are interested in a good MMORPG. I played it a bit, and if it weren't for the fact that I just don't spend enough time playing a MMORPG to be worth the $13 a month, i'd still be playing it. The combat system is adequate, the advancement simple but good enough, and there are so many players out there that you rarely are hurting for a party. Of course it helps if you speak japanese but you don't have to - there are tons of english players, and plenty more japanese players who speak english. It's definitely nice that there aren't too many down times - as you have people halfway around the world on the same server as you, there's always *someone* online

	14-03-2005 02:21									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear Spikey, I assume you play Wow? What's the overall experience of the game?

You're telling me that Dr.Spike also plays WoW and STILL have time left for the forumgames!?


I can only add one point about playing MMORPG and the monthly subscription fees. Once you have a job money isn't the issue... it is time.

	14-03-2005 02:23									#10
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Well, that rather depends on the job, and the fact that once you're on your own, it's a cost-benefit issue. After all, I certainly make enough to pay $13 a month - even $20 a month - on something that gives me a decent entertainment value. But if I can pay $50 and get six or eight months of entertainment out of it (Morrowind), and not have the time requirements of a MMORPG ...

	14-03-2005 02:57									#11
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I would say no, but only because I think WoW sux ballz

	14-03-2005 03:05									#12
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MMORPGs? Tons of people getting online so that they can be elves/orcs/whatever, do stuff together and participate in battles? Talk about unfulfilled childhood games... I dunno, that seems weird to me. SP RPGs I understand, but MMO... though to each his own.

Personally, I will also not even consider a MMORPG or any other game that has a subscription system with per-month costs. That's when gaming becomes like paying bills.

	14-03-2005 03:07									#13
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yeah that's another thing... good point Solver.

WoW makes you pay monthly for it... that's just plain retarded.

	14-03-2005 03:10									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Solver MMORPGs? Tons of people getting online so that they can be elves/orcs/whatever, do stuff together and participate in battles? Talk about unfulfilled childhood games... I dunno, that seems weird to me. SP RPGs I understand, but MMO... though to each his own. Personally, I will also not even consider a MMORPG or any other game that has a subscription system with per-month costs. That's when gaming becomes like paying bills.

I don't agree.

What's the difference between multiplayer rpg, and single player game. You make it seem like roleplaying in general is silly. That would mean SP roleplaying is just as silly as multiplayer roleplaying.

	14-03-2005 03:17									#15
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You know, when playing a SP RPG, I don't feel weird. I enjoy the quests, the storyline or the combat, whatever is best about the specific RPG I'm playing. Multiplayer, though, it would feel real weird... the thought of interacting with serious adult people who look like tiny elfs or something scres me. It would feel weird to have fights with wooden swords in the middle of the city with a group of adult people, after all .

	14-03-2005 03:19									#16
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WoW is great

Addressing your concerns.

#1 - IMO this is an issue, but not a huge one. You need groups to run instances, and you need to run instances to get the best equipment; however, I guarantee you that after a month or so of playing (assuming you play well) you'll find at least 4 or 5 other good players who will be happy to party with you.

I actually play with friends and we have our own small guild (KathleenTurnerOverdrive ). Still, at this point I have a fairly large list of other good players I've made who are always willing to group and go kill stuff.

#2 - I do not play to RP at all. I play to create the best possible combination of class skills, strategy, and equipment for my level. WoW is perfect for this. Also, if you play this way I recommend a PvP server. You're gonna want to show that your guy is tougher than everyone else (at least I do).

#3 - Non issue. We have a couple girlfriends in our guild that basically have never played anything like this before. They're having fun too.

My recommendations -
Faction balance is a big issue on some servers. Aliiance is much more popular than horde. On some PvP servers, the ratio is over 3:1. This sucks if you pick horde. If you can, find a nice low-population server with a balanced population. Also, RP servers are creepy, stay away from them.

	14-03-2005 03:22									#17
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quote: Originally posted by Solver You know, when playing a SP RPG, I don't feel weird. I enjoy the quests, the storyline or the combat, whatever is best about the specific RPG I'm playing. Multiplayer, though, it would feel real weird... the thought of interacting with serious adult people who look like tiny elfs or something scres me. It would feel weird to have fights with wooden swords in the middle of the city with a group of adult people, after all .

I've always felt that way about those guys and teenagers that do that real life roleplaying. I forget what they call that. You know when they go into the forest with fake swords and such.

	14-03-2005 03:41									#18
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You know, real life roleplaying is even more understandable. Sure, it would seem weird to most of us, especially if the people who do it are adults, but to me, it's more weird on the PC. Because, overall, the idea is the same, but instead of doing it for real, it's being done over the Net. Though I realise that many MMORPG players would never do the real thing.

Actually, it's an interesting concept, why we view such roleplaying as odd. After all, most of us did roleplay to some extent at least as kids - gangsters, Indians, comic heroes, policemen, whatever.

	14-03-2005 03:43									#19
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear Spikey, I assume you play Wow? What's the overall experience of the game?

It only just got released here so no, though I've been following the forums since US release, and I played beta.

I'll start playing it soon.

	14-03-2005 03:43									#20
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When I play RPG games, I just like to pretend that the character is me, not I am the character, if that makes any sense.

	14-03-2005 03:45									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Solver MMORPGs? Tons of people getting online so that they can be elves/orcs/whatever, do stuff together and participate in battles? Talk about unfulfilled childhood games... I dunno, that seems weird to me. SP RPGs I understand, but MMO... though to each his own.

You should try it at least once!

	14-03-2005 03:50									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I've always felt that way about those guys and teenagers that do that real life roleplaying. I forget what they call that. You know when they go into the forest with fake swords and such.

You mean SCA, and the like. (Society for Creative Anachronism.)

In terms of SPRPG vs MMORPG, I have to say they're definitely totally different - but not one better than the other, just different.

SPRPG, you play for escapism. You might roleplay it a lot - but the reason you play it is to experience a totally different world where you can forget the fact that your boss is a pain in the rear or your teachers are mean etc. (I'm not dissing it - this is why I play them, after all ) You also might play it for the competitive urge to win, and this is the way you like to win... probably not, as that's why they have RTS, but some people do.

MMORPG is very different. Some still play it for escapism, ie the RPers, but even then it's mostly played for the social interaction. Not far from why a lot of us play FGs. You play it to have fun playing with other people, using the game as the interface through which you have social interactions. For a lot of the players in the game, it's their major arena for social interaction; for others it's just occasional. But either way that's why you play it - because humans are naturally social creatures, and for those who are not good at face-to-face interaction particularly, this is one way to experience social interaction without the constraints of RL, such as appearance or the limited social possibilities of a small town.

Just my two cents.

	14-03-2005 03:54									#23
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike You should try it at least once!

No, it will end up being bad. Either I will dislike it, thus wasting time and money, or I will love it, wasting a LOT of time .

	14-03-2005 03:54									#24
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Solver You know, real life roleplaying is even more understandable. Sure, it would seem weird to most of us, especially if the people who do it are adults, but to me, it's more weird on the PC. Because, overall, the idea is the same, but instead of doing it for real, it's being done over the Net. Though I realise that many MMORPG players would never do the real thing. Actually, it's an interesting concept, why we view such roleplaying as odd. After all, most of us did roleplay to some extent at least as kids - gangsters, Indians, comic heroes, policemen, whatever.

There are many forms of live roleplaying. Some people even try reenact the entire atmosphere of soldiering. But now we're getting OT. This thread is about MMOPRG

http://hnn.us/articles/9092.html

quote: The impulse to turn war into a three-dimensional pastime is manifest in the activities of thousands of American Civil War reenactors who “re-fight” the battles of the past. These reenactors are well known, having been portrayed (and parodied) on TV shows like ER and in Tony Horwitz’s book, Confederates in the Attic. Less well known, however, are the estimated 6,000 Americans who reenact the wars of the twentieth century, including both World Wars and the Korean and Vietnam Wars. Across the country, these more modern warriors join up with their reenacting units to participate in both public and private events. Dressed in period uniforms, they portray Russian privates, Canadian nurses, American GIs, British officers, Vietcong soldiers, and even Nazi SS troops. At air shows and living history encampments, they set up displays of their private collections of period militaria-- including vehicles and weapons--perform battles for spectators, and try, they explain, to teach people about the common soldiers of all nations. ....... Many say the failure of available media to convey the reality of the war experience compelled them to take history into their own hands. Only through their private reenactments, they argue, can they come close to understanding war. “The History Channel is great,” one unit states, “but once you put on sixty pounds of equipment, stand knee deep in muck, and enjoy bully beef out of a tin on a damp chilly morning, the pictures on TV don’t carry the weight they used to.” Especially to a novice, a private event can be astonishing: night battles in the trenches, eerie interrogations in the woods, Russians troops huddled around a campfire in a drizzling rain. These are the scenes in which reenactors strive to experience a “magic moment”-- a time when everything comes together and looks and feels authentic.

	14-03-2005 03:55									#25
	Got spare money?

edit: double post

	14-03-2005 04:27									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Nuclear When I play RPG games, I just like to pretend that the character is me, not I am the character, if that makes any sense.

so your elf character sits down and plays computer games all day?

	14-03-2005 05:03									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Solver No, it will end up being bad. Either I will dislike it, thus wasting time and money, or I will love it, wasting a LOT of time .

More likely the latter. I was a little sceptical, but decided to take the plunge as I don't like being ignorant of any area of gaming. They are surprisingly addictive, I found.

Hence no WoW until I know I have some time.

	14-03-2005 05:11									#28
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Well, I am then rather glad to be ignorant of many areas of gaming . OK, when I retire, I may buy myself about 200 games and play them all day long. As it is now, though, regular playing of Civ and occasionally something new that comes out (HL2, for instance) takes up enough time.

	14-03-2005 05:39									#29
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Well, as someone who has been playing WoW since the open beta, and who previously held great disdain for MMORPGs, I'd have to strongly recommend it

	14-03-2005 21:35									#30
	Re: Should I get World of Warcraft?? Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by Asmodean 1) My first and foremost concerns is about the whole party (or guild) concept. None of my friends are into gaming, and I would have to rely on casual internet acquaintances for playing, something which in my experience is very hard to schedule. So the question is: Can WoW be played alone (as in a party of one) and still be fun? What elements do I exclude myself from by playing alone? Is character development possible when playing alone, or do most opponents require a party to defeat?

It's possible to play alone, though it's not the fastest or best way. Basically, there are three types of quests: normal, elite, and raid. Normal can be solo'ed, elite require a group (up to 5 people), raids require far more (up to 40 people, usually less). Raids are all end-game stuff.

It's not a big deal to group for those quests though. There's a "LookingForGroup" channel in each zone for that purpose, and the next patch is adding "Meeting Stones" for raid/elite instances with an interface on creating groups.

quote: 2) My second concern ralate to my playing style. When playing any RPG, I almost never roleplay in the strict sense of the word. I develop my character. That's what is fun for me, and that's what I do. I like to get my character as mean and tough as possible, so that he can go out and kick some butt. That's where the fun is for me. How well is that represented in WoW? Can the game be played in this style? Or is roleplaying needed? (I guess choice of realm (server) is crucial here?)

I'd say the vast majority of players play like that. There are three kinds of servers:
PvP - Enables Player vs Player combat system by default, so if you're in a "contested" zone or enemy's zone, they can attack you. If you're in a "friendly" zone, they can only attack you if you attack one of them first. RPing is extremely rare on these servers, it's what I play.
PvE - Player vs Environment...you need to set your PvP flag to engage in Player vs Player combat.
RP PvE - Player vs Environment, but for roleplayers. Roleplayers play on these servers.

quote: 3) My last concern is about my MMORPG experience. I am a total novice, and I am a bit worried that WoW is too hardcore to be my first MMORPG game. Any thoughts on that? Should I start out on PvE servers before moving on to PvP? I hope you will address my questions seriously. Asmodean

WoW isn't hardcore at all, it's very newbie-friendly. There are some issues with the PvP servers you need to be aware of: you will be "ganked". After the L10-area, you start going into "contested" zones for quests...which means you can be attacked by the opposing faction. You will run into players 10+ levels higher than you, and they will kill you pretty damn quickly.

PvE is less frustrating in that respect, but it's also less rewarding IMO.