17-03-2005 08:07									#1
	Why are American kids so dumb? Full PM-box? Change here!

First of all, the statement in the title is true. There is no getting around it other than ignorant worship for the flag and country--Americans are dumb. Our kids consistently score lower on pretty much any test than those in Europe. It's just a "fact" in that you could probably find data to oppose it but it's so commonly accepted it would be like being a flat Earther. For the sake of this thread don't try to oppose it.

I'm not saying Americans are inherently dumber, there's nothing in our genes that lowers our IQ. But it's pretty obvious, we are not as smart as other nationalities in the developed world. Why?

I think it has to do with three major things. I might be wrong, but here they are:

(1) There are less American teachers per student than European teachers per student. Individual attention always produces better results. A classroom of 15 has more individual attention time than a classroom of 25.

(2) Education is not uniform across the United States. Unlike in Europe, where despite differences per country things are generally alike as long as you stay in the border, every state in the US has different educational standards, different minimums, requirements, certifications, tests, you name it. And the situation this makes is that the education system is totally different between some places, and how things are measured is ruined. For example, an all-A student in Arkansas may well be only a B or C student in Massachussetts. Even within the Natural State, individual school districts have different rules in place, and I can assure you an A student from one of these super-tiny high schools will do poorly at a large school.

(3) Europeans are exposed to more things than Americans. Education isn't just a simple formulaic equation. Culture and willingness to understand, accept things plays a part in it too. A European kid has much more access to cultural materials as well as different cultures than his own. There are no different cultures in the United States. People throw around the South, New England, California as having different cultures, but we really don't, and since desegregation even the Deep South has been tamed, you rarely hear proper Southern accents any more, or anything like that. Besides, differences across the US are not the kind that foster understanding--we all have the same manners, the same religion, the same history. Culture in the US consists of watching TV. Few children see the arts or grow up with people that are different from themselves.

So what can we do? Throw money at education, institute more federal regulations, fund the arts into areas where it would not normally be afforded, areas with children at-risk for failure, for example. It won't be easy but it won't be fixed if we put our fingers in our ears or blindly discount ideas from across the Atlantic.

	17-03-2005 08:13									#2
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This is silly. Americans are among the most educated in the world. Certainly more educated than those in the vast majority of European countries.

	17-03-2005 08:23									#3
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I hope I am not being too cliche when I blame television. Daily television viewing numbs the mind and takes up time that would be better spent reading. Once in a vegetative state, it takes a certain degree of self-control to tear oneself away. Fortunately, computer games and the internet are slowly killing off the boob tube.

A culture of anti-intellectualism that in fact derides continuous excellence in school as "nerdy" is also a contributory factor. The level of that tends to wary from school to school and from region to region.

Oh, and IMHO I received an excellent elementary education in Latvia.

	17-03-2005 08:34									#4
	Re: Why are American kids so dumb? Increase the size of your Attachments

1. Schools are underfunded.

2. Our popular culture makes liking school "uncool," kids who like school are osctracized from peers for being "nerds."

3. Our PC culture forces schools to have unintresting and uninspiring curricula out of fear of offending someone.

	17-03-2005 08:38									#5
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Also, does this take our high level of immigration into account? Its hard for the kids to score well on the tests when a significant number of them don't speak the language adequately. Also, as Odin points out, learning is not "cool" in our country.

	17-03-2005 08:44									#6
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Fortunately, computer games and the internet are slowly killing off the boob tube.

Yes, because playing counter-strike and spewing illegible crap in chat rooms is so much more stimulating.

	17-03-2005 08:45									#7
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I was going to complain about the idiocy of this topic, but then I realized that an American created this thread.

	17-03-2005 08:52									#8
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quote: This is silly. Americans are among the most educated in the world. Certainly more educated than those in the vast majority of European countries.

Perhaps Albania, but none of the others. The closest is Britain, which has very poor education.

The Germans pwn you (and almost anyone really). As was illlustrated by US coverage of a German school shooting. The reporter assumed that it was a sports school because it was called a gymnasium.

retards.

	17-03-2005 08:55									#9
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quote: Albania

another wretched land that should be nuked.

	17-03-2005 09:03									#10
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo I hope I am not being too cliche when I blame television. Daily television viewing numbs the mind and takes up time that would be better spent reading. Once in a vegetative state, it takes a certain degree of self-control to tear oneself away. Fortunately, computer games and the internet are slowly killing off the boob tube.

Europe doesn't have TV's?

	17-03-2005 09:04									#11
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quote: Originally posted by General Ludd Yes, because playing counter-strike and spewing illegible crap in chat rooms is so much more stimulating.

Actually yes.

Playing an FPS well - in fact, playing almost any game well - requires a fluidity of thought and critical thinking skills a cut above the rest.

	17-03-2005 09:09									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Actually yes. Playing an FPS well - in fact, playing almost any game well - requires a fluidity of thought and critical thinking skills a cut above the rest.

ZOMFG PWNED by l337 skilzz

	17-03-2005 09:20									#13
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quote: I was going to complain about the idiocy of this topic, but then I realized that an American created this thread.

I know Americans. We are dumb. It is nothing to hide, just to work on.

	17-03-2005 10:06									#14
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Americans on average recieve more schooling then anyone else in the world.

	17-03-2005 10:10									#15
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quote: Americans on average recieve more schooling then anyone else in the world.

And we're still a nation of single-digit IQs.

	17-03-2005 10:14									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DanS This is silly. Americans are among the most educated in the world. Certainly more educated than those in the vast majority of European countries.

However educated they are, this doesn't empirically translate into cultured and bright people. BTW, the most educated people are those of the former communist block.

	17-03-2005 10:15									#17
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quote: Originally posted by mrmitchell And we're still a nation of single-digit IQs.

Yeah.. Al Sharpton for one.

	17-03-2005 10:17									#18
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we also spend more money per student then every european nation, yet we see less returns. we should scrap it all and move towards privatization.

	17-03-2005 10:18									#19
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I am going to say this once more tests dont measure the precise IQ of anyone. I back this with some kids just suck at tests, and Ill Throw in any person can be having a bad day and do poorly on the test that day but ace it on a good day.

	17-03-2005 10:19									#20
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia we also spend more money per student then every european nation, yet we see less returns. we should scrap it all and move towards privatization.

our system is worse than EUrope, so let's move towards the exact opposite method of education that most of Europe uses... that makes sense!

	17-03-2005 10:19									#21
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in the US teacher is not a big imporant job... one which attracts the best

in Cyprus, for example, teacher is one of the best jobs, and it attracts the best in school

this is some of it, I am sure

JM

	17-03-2005 10:21									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker Europe doesn't have TV's?

At least most of Europe has TVs which show a large enough amount of English-language programmes that the viewers learn a foreign language while they watch it if nothing else.

	17-03-2005 10:25									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Sava our system is worse than EUrope, so let's move towards the exact opposite method of education that most of Europe uses... that makes sense!

Is our system really that much worse? I think American universities are far better then anything they have in Europe. I investigated various universities in Spain and Italy, and I disliked the method of teaching. It is more memorization based then applied based.

	17-03-2005 10:27									#24
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Teachers are not the most respected profession. But to label the american kids as dumb because of a test is not accurate. as for european tv ill say one word Benny hill. Not the sharpest tool in the shed there.

	17-03-2005 10:29									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Giancarlo Is our system really that much worse? I think American universities are far better then anything they have in Europe. I investigated various universities in Spain and Italy, and I disliked the method of teaching. It is more memorization based then applied based.

I'm talking about public schools K-12, not universities...

	17-03-2005 10:32									#26
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The school system really has broken down in major ways.

Ask ANY teacher if they would recommend teaching as a profession, and most of them will say no. They work long hours, get crap pay, and the kids have a host of social problems that didn't exist before.

The kids spend most of their day now learning how to take tests instead of learning how to think.


On top of that, there is an increasing emphasis on living a hedonistic lifestyle (the Paris Hilton way).

	17-03-2005 10:33									#27
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quote: there is an increasing emphasis on living a hedonistic lifestyle

	17-03-2005 10:42									#28
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Mrs Tuberski individually you're correct but as a whole you don't think Europeans can be bad test-takers or have bad days too?

	17-03-2005 10:42									#29
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Yeah, that is funny coming from Ted.

	17-03-2005 10:42									#30
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Like when 9th grade girls are pretending to be lesbians in order to attract guys! Crazy!!!