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Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Her nurses say she is responsive.
mmm so far only one "nurse" has said she was responsive... and this person also claimed this was in 1985... 5 years before Terri's accident. So her credibility is lacking.

All that should matter is that the court-appointed experts concluded she is PVS. That means the opinions of biased doctors from both sides should not be listened to. The court-appointed doctors are the only ones who are truly objective in this situation.

Seriously Ben... 7 years of court rulings have consistently said she is PVS. We're not just talking about Michael Schiavo's opinion. This case has been gone over with a fine-tooth comb... every imaginable detail has been brought to light. And the experts have consistently ruled in favor of Michael Schiavo.

Why is this even an issue?

It is a pretty open and shut case. It's just a shame that the ignorant ideology of a few fanatics are attempting to distort the facts in order to get the result they seek.

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
universal city tx
Jan 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Thorn
What'd I give to remove Ben's feeding tube......

Thats not very nice. It becomes sad when one cant accept the opinion of another.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:07
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Well, the government couldn't stop people from feeding their plant.

Why should they be able to stop Terri's parents from feeding her?

Gamecube64 is offline Gamecube64
King
of Persia
Apr 2004
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Ming

Discuss the topics, not the posters.


For Thorn.

Thorn is offline Thorn
Warlord
Asheville, NC
May 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:11 Visit Thorn's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski

Thats not very nice. It becomes sad when one cant accept the opinion of another.


I'm sorry, its just that if Ben had his way I'd be burning alive in a big firey brimstone place, if you sense any animosity it might be because of the amount of pain he wants me to have....

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
universal city tx
Jan 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:17
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point is the parents should be given a right on their daughter. Hell they brought her into the world why shouldnt they have a say when she dies. For the smart asses dont bring up murder as an option. These people have a choice the parents of someone that has been murdered didnt

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:25
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Parents weren't her choice, her husband was, seems logical as to who gets the final say, how ever hard that may sound.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:25
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quote:

mmm so far only one "nurse" has said she was responsive... and this person also claimed this was in 1985... 5 years before Terri's accident. So her credibility is lacking.


See for yourself.

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/mar/05032305.html

quote:

It is a pretty open and shut case. It's just a shame that the ignorant ideology of a few fanatics are attempting to distort the facts in order to get the result they seek.


well, that's really strengthening your case.

Thorn is offline Thorn
Warlord
Asheville, NC
May 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:28 Visit Thorn's homepage!
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You know I have this sinking feeling that Ben put me on his ignore list.... sigh....

lets test that scenario:


Ben now is the time, if you talk to me now I will be saved I will join in the gospel of Jesus, repent all my sins, but only if you read this........

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:29 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:32
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Oh heavens

Another convert!

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
universal city tx
Jan 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:32
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Ok once again this isnt about ben he has his opinions stick to the topic if you want to talk WE were discussing why the parents cant have the decison about thier own kid

Bill3000 is offline Bill3000
King
of Soloralism
Jul 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:34 Visit Bill3000's homepage!
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That website is obviously a pro-life website... Look at the damned name, "lifesite" Plus those are just particular coincidences; when the vast majority of docots say that it is not reproducable, then you kind of think that it isn't reproducable, and yer source becomes debunked.


...yeah, I'm bad at debating. /shrug

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:39 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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Seems to me it's the parents who are the truly braindead ones here... Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Let it drop for christ's sake...

So much for a dignified end...

What is particularly barbaric is that the 'pro-lifers' are forcing her to be starved to death, when a lethal injection would be a far more human way to end her un-natural life...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:42 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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I saw the husband interviewed - he seemed like a good man with his wife's best interests at heart. He's stood by her through all of this.

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
universal city tx
Jan 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:43
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Re: Seems to me it's the parents who are the truly braindead ones here... Get a bigger avatar today!

quote:
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Let it drop for christ's sake...

So much for a dignified end...

What is particularly barbaric is that the 'pro-lifers' are forcing her to be starved to death, when a lethal injection would be a far more human way to end her un-natural life...

Uh if the parents had a choice she wouldnt be starving to death.

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
Ok once again this isnt about ben he has his opinions stick to the topic if you want to talk WE were discussing why the parents cant have the decison about thier own kid


Cause she's a big girl, and apparently made the decision that her husband should speak for her on this (2 other people said that was her wish as well).

Last edited by Imran Siddiqui on 24-03-2005 at 04:52

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:46
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Re: Seems to me it's the parents who are the truly braindead ones here... Remove this text

quote:
Originally posted by MOBIUS
Let it drop for christ's sake...

* sigh *

For the record: If I'm ever remotely close to that state, just kill me, I don't care how, just do it.

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:46 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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They do have a choice, they are just not exercising it...

Consequently they would rather she starve to death. Nice folks!

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:46 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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If it was my family there would have been a discreet mercy killing a long time ago.

Plastic bag over the head for a few minutes and Bob's your uncle.

My dad probably would have done it - he's the family "fixer" and strongman. He's our leader.

Its an Irish thing...

Sava is offline Sava
King
GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Well, the government couldn't stop people from feeding their plant.

Why should they be able to stop Terri's parents from feeding her?
because Terri's parents aren't legally entitled to decide things for her... nor should they be. The husband is the one who gets to make the call. BTW, what about the sanctity of marriage BK? Can't you respect Michael Schiavo's right to decide things?

quote:
See for yourself.
If you provide information from a credible source, I will consider it. But I SERIOUSLY DOUBT "lifenews.net" is providing accurate information.

quote:
well, that's really strengthening your case.
Well, it's not "my case". In addition, my opinions about the biased, uninformed, yet motivated effort to trample on 200 years of American jurisprudence is irrelevant. I only add them because I feel like giving my opinion on all aspects of this case. The case itself stands on its own merits.

The most important fact is that this is a matter of law. The hierarchy or weight of importance of the facts in this case are as follows.

1. It is a matter of law. Michael Schiavo has the right to decide what course of action to take. The courts have consistently, and correctly ruled so.

2. Terri is PVS. It is not possible to regrow a brain. For all intents and purposes, she died 15 years ago when she suffered severe brain hypoxia and her brain was without oxygen for 14 MINUTES. The courts have consistently and correctly concluded this.

3. It is in accordance with Terri's wishes. Not just according to her husband, but substantiated by Michael Schiavo's brother, many of Terri's friends, and Terri's brother who all testified under oath to this fact. The courts have consistently and correctly determined this.

and there are other things to take into account...

1. The effort to oppose the courts is lead by fanatics who are engaged in a concentrated propaganda campaign aimed at confusing the facts. It is a campaign of misinformation dedicated to confusing the state Terri is in and slandering her husband as to discredit him.

2. The hypocrisy of the politicians in question. Bush having signed the 1999 law saying hospital admins can take people off of life support EVEN IF their families object. The general hypocrisy of the "pro-life" movement, which I won't get into because it is too massive a topic to discuss.

So all I ask Ben is that you put aside your prejudices and look objectively at the facts... no, not some garbage from www.iamprolifeliberalsarefags.com, but the ACTUAL facts of the case as reported by mainstream sources and records from the court precedings.

I know you hold strong beliefs Ben, but you should be able to look at the facts without letting your prejudices decide matters for you. In fact, the Florida State Judge, Greer, is a Republican appointee and devout Southern Baptist. Yet he was able to rule in favor of Michael Schiavo. Food for thought.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:49
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No AH, it's the decent and humane thing to do, nothing to de with Irish-ness.

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:54 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Plastic bag over the head for a few minutes and Bob's your uncle.


Cool!

Kill a family member and as if by magic you gain a new family member called Bob...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:54 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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True. The Irish part is we still settle our own family matters, no courts.

We wouldn't stand by and watch a family member starve to death, we'd end their suffering. I have no doubt about it - its been done before - more often than people think.

Thorn is offline Thorn
Warlord
Asheville, NC
May 1999
time: 00:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:57 Visit Thorn's homepage!
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Conservatives (pokes at Ben) you do know keeping a soul that confused for that long b/c of being in that unconscious state will not allow it transfer over, thus its people like you that are basically trying to send her to some sort of Hell, Christians my ass. pray for her to die and her soul to cross properly if you are real Christian.

alva is offline alva
Emperor
Republic of Flanders
Sep 2001
time: 06:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 04:59
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quote:
True. The Irish part is we still settle our own family matters, no courts.

We wouldn't stand by and watch a family member starve to death, we'd end their suffering. I have no doubt about it - its been done before - more often than people think.



Certainly, I know someone who killed her heavily sic and soon to die baby , the doctor "knew", never said a thing.. she just put a pillow over it's head for a couple of minutes and that was it.
Nobody I know had ever pointed a finger to her for doing that and it was a public secret.

It's not how it should be done though, there should be a legal way to settle it and get it over with.

EDIT: quote added

Last edited by alva on 24-03-2005 at 05:04

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 05:01 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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I think the term you are looking for is purgatory...

So sad, if these christians truly believe in god then surely they are their daughter's own worst enemies - preventing her from reaching heaven in such a cruel way. I ask you...

So sad, we should all hold hands and pray that god forgives them...

MOBIUS is offline MOBIUS
King
Prifysgol Caerdydd
Dec 1999
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 05:06 Visit MOBIUS's homepage!
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Uh, actually it seems to be limbo instead...

I love this: The Logistics of Purgatory

How can people believe in this crap? Talk about Freaks!

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 05:07 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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I'm sure the Welsh are similarly practical - the family closes ranks around the person who is dying and whatever needs to be done for them is done. Its something people don't talk about but if you've ever been around people who are dying you know when enough is enough.

If your dog was terminally ill you'd know what to do.

Mrs. Tuberski is offline Mrs. Tuberski
Princess
universal city tx
Jan 2005
time: 23:34
  Old Post 24-03-2005 05:07
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Alva thats called murder. I thought about trying that see if the woman has some way to fight back if she does the back off, tubes just told me gov wants custody of the woman

 
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