20-03-2005 12:45									#1
	Bush signs emergency law to preempt state courts ref Terry Schiavo Inflate your Upload Space

I just heard a BBC newfeed that Bush went and signed a Republican passe federal law to override the Florida state court's and stop, yet again, the removal of a feeding tube from Terry Schiavo. This is not a thread to argue over her conditions, that is already on it's fifth page. This is in response to some posters commentary about state's rights (good for you, DinoDoc) and, shall we say, a certain INCONSISTENCY that since we don't like the courts' decisions, we will pass an ex post facto law to nullify the courts.

Comment - inconsistancy with state's rights, commentary on judicial activitism, ad nauseum. I really want to see the tortured logic used to justify this one.

	20-03-2005 12:48									#2
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This law

Starving Terri Schiavo

That it had to come to this

	20-03-2005 12:48									#3
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I refer to this thread

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/show...861#post3685861

	20-03-2005 12:50									#4
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I'm guess, eventually, this will be struck down as Unconstitutional, since I'm really not sure what possibly authority Congress has to legislate on this issue. It just buys time...

Freaking idiots in Congress.

	20-03-2005 12:54									#5
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Gepap posted the thread about the actual debate over the feeding tubes. This is about the federal intervention into the case, specifically by a Republican House, a Republican Senate, and -gasp- a Republican President. Imran, I thought you'd be consistant here.

	20-03-2005 12:56									#6
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.... how am I not consistent here?

	20-03-2005 13:07									#7
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You are - that wasn't sarcasm. It was a compliment. Hell, if I can compliment Ned at times, I certainly can find things to compliment you for (I added it after our recent Scalia thread - I plan to start a new one after the current one's die down, and do I have a speech to post. )

Last edited by shawnmmcc on 20-03-2005 at 13:28

	20-03-2005 14:00									#8
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this continued taking away and inserting the feeding tube is going to give her an eating disorder.

	20-03-2005 14:15									#9
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That's terrible - funny in a sick sort of way - but terrible. Correction - Bush is cutting his weekend short so he can sign the law into effect. That's why we have a new flight restriction around Waco, TX - he's leaving early.

	20-03-2005 14:15									#10
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This whole case makes me wonder why euthanasia in the form of administered drugs isn't legal all over the world. But that is not the point of this thread.

I will say, that the American Republican Party is the worst gang of moral hypocrites the world has ever seen. They f*ck up time and time again, and the worst thing is that they don't even see it.

Republicans

Euthanasia

Asmodean

	20-03-2005 16:22									#11
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Euthanising Republicans ????

	20-03-2005 20:20									#12
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quote: Originally posted by aneeshm Euthanising Republicans ????

	20-03-2005 20:21									#13
	Re: Bush signs emergency law to preempt state courts ref Terry Schiavo Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by shawnmmcc I just heard a BBC newfeed that Bush went and signed a Republican passe federal law to override the Florida state court's and stop, yet again, the removal of a feeding tube from Terry Schiavo. This is not a thread to argue over her conditions, that is already on it's fifth page. This is in response to some posters commentary about state's rights (good for you, DinoDoc) and, shall we say, a certain INCONSISTENCY that since we don't like the courts' decisions, we will pass an ex post facto law to nullify the courts. Comment - inconsistancy with state's rights, commentary on judicial activitism, ad nauseum. I really want to see the tortured logic used to justify this one.

My beef is that Congress is, once again, lowering itself to the tabloid level. DEAL WITH IMPORTANT STUFF, YOU MORONS.

That, and they're deliberately trying to mess with the judiciary in a particular case. It's just absurd!

	20-03-2005 20:55									#14
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to this crap

	20-03-2005 21:08									#15
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God Bless America.

But **** the *******s in charge.

	20-03-2005 22:18									#16
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Would this be a bill of attainder?

	20-03-2005 22:20									#17
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No. A Bill of Attainder is the legislature declaring a person (or group) to be guilty of a crime and set their punishment without a judicial trial.

	20-03-2005 22:25									#18
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We have two more years of this crap.

	20-03-2005 22:31									#19
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I am afraid this is why he have laws, so they can be changed or amended in the best interests of all parties involved, not just one indvidual but all of them.

	20-03-2005 22:36									#20
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and this is why america is going down the drain - because power is no longer checked, because laws are being administered by the executive/ legislature instead of the judiciary, and this is why america has started its fall from power, much like rome did 8 centurie ago.

	20-03-2005 22:40									#21
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well put it this way if you were thrown on death row for a crime you didnt commit and the judges couldnt prove that you did indeed not do it would you want the higher ups to intervene or just send you off to die?

	20-03-2005 22:41									#22
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Put it another way, if you thought some guy was on death row for a crime he DID committ and the judges agreed, and then Congress came along and said he's innocent, wouldn't you be pissed off?

I know I would. And that's why such a law would be unconstitutional under seperation of powers.

	20-03-2005 22:51									#23
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quote: Originally posted by Asmodean This whole case makes me wonder why euthanasia in the form of administered drugs isn't legal all over the world. But that is not the point of this thread. I will say, that the American Republican Party is the worst gang of moral hypocrites the world has ever seen. They f*ck up time and time again, and the worst thing is that they don't even see it. Republicans Euthanasia Asmodean

Asmodean is getting to the root of the problem. IIRC, Oregon is the only state which has legalized physician-assisted suicide. So elsewhere, the only way individual can make sure they're not, against their wishes, kept alive in a vegetative state is by leaving a living will -- setting out what "heroic" steps may be taken if they are not capible of making decisions. Here, Terry Shiavo left explicit written instructions that she was not to be kept alive by way of a feeding tube. Her poor husband is placed in the unenviable position of trying to carry out her orders.

However, Shiavo's parents, the State of Florida, the U.S. Congress and now the President all seek to impose their will upon Terry Shiavo, apparently believing that they know what is best for her better than she does.

This nation was based upon the principle that the individual is the sovereign. However, Congress and the President apparently believe individuals have no rights and there is no limits to federal power as long as there is a majority in both Houses and a Presidential signature.

1984 is arriving ... a generation late, but here is comes.

	20-03-2005 22:53									#24
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well put it this way, if there wasnt a death row you wouldnt have to worry AS MUCH about innocence and guilt.

	20-03-2005 22:58									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia well put it this way, if there wasnt a death row you wouldnt have to worry AS MUCH about innocence and guilt.

No just about spending the rest of your life in a hell hole prison. As for What Imran said. yes I would and I would continue to fight in the courts to make sure the person is guility and make sure they get what they deserve.

	20-03-2005 23:06									#26
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better then death if you are innocent. fact is that the executives jobs is to enforce the law, not make new ones. the legislatures job is to propose new laws, not overturn what the courts say, and the judicials job is to interpret those laws. anything else makes us just as bad as iraq. maybe france should invade us and free us from tyranny.

	20-03-2005 23:07									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler However, Shiavo's parents, the State of Florida, the U.S. Congress and now the President all seek to impose their will upon Terry Shiavo, apparently believing that they know what is best for her better than she does.

That is not entirely correct- no one can prove what terry schiavo wants, since she is a vegetable. Big surprise that a person in their 20's didn;t leave behind detailed information on what to do with them after a serious medical illness.

This case boils down to a custody dispute between the legal guardian, the husband, and the parents, who dispute what he is trying to do. The danger of this law is that we have the Governor of Florida and then the Federal government interfering in what is a legal case based on Florida law. This whole mess should be settled in state court- and it was. But the parents and idologues who share common ends in this case have gotten together to have other branches of government interfere with the Florida court system.

That is the outrage of this law.

	20-03-2005 23:11									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Here, Terry Shiavo left explicit written instructions that she was not to be kept alive by way of a feeding tube. Her poor husband is placed in the unenviable position of trying to carry out her orders.

IIRC there weren't explicit written instructions, hence the argument over her wishes.

	20-03-2005 23:14									#29
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quote: Originally posted by Zkribbler Here, Terry Shiavo left explicit written instructions that she was not to be kept alive by way of a feeding tube.

No, she didn't. That's the crux of the debate--it's Michael Schiavo's contention that she said so. Her parents dispute it. However, every court has upheld that, as her legal guardian, Schiavo has the right to make that decision on behalf of his wife.

This bill is indeed atrocious and just is evidence that Congress is out of control. They have ZERO right to interfere in this matter, and I have little doubt the Supreme Court will strike this law down in a heartbeat. What a wonderful use of our government's time and resources.

	20-03-2005 23:17									#30
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while I agree with your last post well except the france part. There are two types of courts here in the us. Criminal and federal. Since this isnt a criminal case the feds must intervene. Getting congress involved Ill agree its all about publicity.