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Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
I don't think you get it.


It can possibly be an abortifacient! ZOMFG!

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:06
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BK: does life begin at cell division for you?

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
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Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:07 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuciwalker
This kind of rapage makes me feel unclean


I know.

I think I'll pull out now and unstrap them form the bed.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:07
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God gives the little buggers souls as a reward for their first mitosis it should be a sacrament.

DanS is offline DanS
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Kickball Capital of the World
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quote:
It can possibly be an abortifacient! ZOMFG!


Is this somehow supposed to be an argument?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:08
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That's what I was wondering.

DanS is offline DanS
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:09 Visit DanS's homepage!
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And I walked you through the argument where that makes a difference for our purposes of discussion here.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:09
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quote:

BK: does life begin at cell division for you?


No, but these definitions are important to clarify that we are talking about the same things when we use the same words.

A pig embryo is an embryo at cell division. According to this new definition, what would we call a human being after cell division conceived in a petri dish?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:11
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
And I walked you through the argument where that makes a difference for our purposes of discussion here.


Again, by your logic it would be OK for a pharmacist to refuse to give frigging painkillers.

DanS is offline DanS
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No it wouldn't. Where have I implied that? I thought this would move on to a more interesting discussion about significant uses. You can lead a horse to water...

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:13
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quote:

So what? It's a part of the job. You can't be a cop if you refuse to use a gun, even if that's not normally part of the job.


Tell me what then, is the purpose of a pharmacist. I'm very curious as to see what you say.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:15
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Kuci:

The reason your argument doesn't work is because painkillers have a use apart from being used to euthanise people.

The pill on the other hand is different. You cannot separate the abortifacient effect from the other contraceptive effects, due to the chemicals involved. In fact, to remove the abortifacient effect drastically lowers the effectiveness of the pill.

Therefore, it does make sense to treat the two drug effects differently.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:16
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AFAIK, that would be an embryo. I've always understood Zygote as being the very first cell resulting from the fusion of two gametes (the French words I'm using might not be perfectly mirrored in English). When cell division happens, after ca. 2 days, you have an embryo.

DanS is offline DanS
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quote:
The pill on the other hand is different.


It is different only in proportion (i.e., a painkiller is largely meant to kill pain, not euthanize people). There are significant uses for the pill other than contraception.

Q Cubed is offline Q Cubed
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:28 Visit Q Cubed's homepage!
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quote:
I see nothing in Catholicism barring capital punishment.

Hasn't the pope weighed in on this?

===

In any case, the pharmacists? Stupid. Sure, it's within their rights, but I won't cry for them if they get fired. Do I agree with what they're doing? No. They're being paid for a service. They are in breach of contract; if they cannot provide a viable alternative that is acceptible to the other party, then they are in the wrong.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:30
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bk, thats if you believe preventing implantation on the uteran wall is abortion.

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 09:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Boris Godunov Name me one law that requires an employer to accomodate an employee's religious beliefs to the extent that it renders the employee incapable of doing the designated job. That is not required of employers whatsoever.


quote:
Originally posted by KrazyHorseReligious objections to duties reasonably within the scope of an employee's job description are not a valid excuse for failing to carry them out.


Two examples I am aware of.

1. Prior to Roe v. Wade, many medical facilities did not provide abortions. After Roe v. Wade these faciilities were required to make abortion procedures available, but many Catholic doctors refused to perform the procedure in spite of their explicit or implicit employment contracts. Many states passed conscience laws under which doctors could not be forced to perform procedures against their conscience, even if they had an existing contract. I can't believe nobody mentioned this.

2. In college I worked evenings and weekends at a hobby shop (best job I ever had ). Maryland had Blue Laws at the time, and the store was closed on Sundays. When the Blue Laws were repealed, an additional law was passed requiring employers to accomodate employees who did not wish to to work on Sunday (or Friday, or Saturday, depending on your belief).

In both cases the motivating factor was the same: a change in the laws that affected existing explicit or implicit terms of employment. I suspect the same is true with pharmacists. Morning after pills were not legally available, or reasonably expected to be legally available, at the time the pharmacists entered into their employment contracts. Here are at least two precedents for making reasonable accomodation instead of firing the @#$%^&*'s as many of you claim should be done.

I won't defend a pharmacist's refusal to return the perscription to the patient. And I suspect some pharmacists objections to selling contraception is a case of "in for a dime, in for a dollar." Perhaps some of you would feel more comfortable with more time-tested tactics such as boycotting pharmacies and sitting in at lunch counters.

Sava is offline Sava
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GO GO GO!
Mar 2001
time: 23:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 09:09
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@ thread since I last read it

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 09:28 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Tell me what then, is the purpose of a pharmacist. I'm very curious as to see what you say.


The purpose of a pharmacist is to verify the authenticity of prescriptions and to fill them. Being able to advise customers about non-prescription drugs is an added bonus.

St Leo is offline St Leo
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Jul 2005
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 09:38 Visit St Leo<br><img src=/forums/images/staff-icon.gif>'s homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Adam Smith
And I suspect some pharmacists objections to selling contraception is a case of "in for a dime, in for a dollar."


So, in other words... "I can't get laid. You did? Well, **** you. Need a contraceptive? **** you. You should have thought of that before you got laid and I didn't. Now, I'll refuse to fill your prescription, and we can both be miserable."

That's just... mean. The cruelty and inhumanity of such an attitude is mind-boggling.

I mean... whatever happenned to heart? To charity? To generosity? To forgiveness? To loving your fellow human?

Pharmacists who refuse to dispense prescribed cures are absolutely despicable.

Adam Smith is offline Adam Smith
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Jan 1970
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 09:59
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Perhaps that part of my previous post was unclear. What I meant was that if pharmacists were going to object to selling morning after pills, they might as well bring up any objections they have to selling contraceptives at the same time.

Kidicious is offline Kidicious
Settler
Diety of Kidiverse
Mar 2003
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 10:24 Visit Kidicious's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Q Cubed
In any case, the pharmacists? Stupid. Sure, it's within their rights, but I won't cry for them if they get fired. Do I agree with what they're doing? No. They're being paid for a service. They are in breach of contract; if they cannot provide a viable alternative that is acceptible to the other party, then they are in the wrong.


If they don't get fired for it I guess everything is fine then.

Heresson is offline Heresson
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Jun 2000
time: 06:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 12:54
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Go, fundy farmacists, go!



fundamentalism is cool!

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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United States of America
Feb 2000
time: 23:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 14:22 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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The real losers in all of this are women in rural America, who oftentimes have but one pharmacy to go to in a very large geographic area. Should that pharmacy refuse to fill a prescription for birth control, morning-after and whatnot, they're screwed.

In a part of the story not available at 'Poly, it went into detail about a poor, married couple who were making love. The husband's condom broke and, in desperation, they went to a pharmacy. They were refused, and by the time they managed to locate a willing pharmacy, the 72-hour window had passed. By the grace of God, the wife didn't become pregnant ... but what is she had? Her husband and her did everything right, and yet an outside force (in this case, a recalcitrant pharmacist) playing God could very well have seriously ****ed up their lives.

It's not right. It's as simple as that.

Gatekeeper

Heresson is offline Heresson
King
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 14:30
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A child does not screw your life. Don't want a child - don't screw.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 14:42 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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Brilliant, witty reply, Heresson.

Heresson is offline Heresson
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Jun 2000
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 14:51
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I'm trolling

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 17:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Tell me what then, is the purpose of a pharmacist. I'm very curious as to see what you say.


To dispense medication prescribed by a doctor. Such as the pill. Such as potential abortifacients.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
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Feb 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 17:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Kuci:

The reason your argument doesn't work is because painkillers have a use apart from being used to euthanise people.

The pill on the other hand is different. You cannot separate the abortifacient effect from the other contraceptive effects, due to the chemicals involved. In fact, to remove the abortifacient effect drastically lowers the effectiveness of the pill.

Therefore, it does make sense to treat the two drug effects differently.


To remove the euthanizing effect drastically lowers the effectiveness of painkillers, too... since it's inherent to the chemical composition of the agent...

Alexander's Horse is offline Alexander's Horse
Deity
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Jan 1970
time: 15:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 17:33 Visit Alexander's Horse's homepage!
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I'm surprised there are fundamentalist pharmacists.

They dispense drugs which are based on science which is against God. Right?

 
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