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Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:28
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quote:

Catholics aren't allowed to be executioners, either, by that logic - oh, the horror, religious discrimination! ZOMFG!!!!


I see nothing in Catholicism barring capital punishment.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
quote:
There is a problem with only providing it to married women though.


I never said I approved of them discriminating based on marital status. If they don't want to sell it, that's fine. If they do sell it, though, they need to sell it to everyone.


How about we just admite that pharmacists have a job to fill all perscriptions doctor's send them? If a pharmacist doesn't want to do his job then he should 1) lose his licence since he is harming the patients he is sworen to protect 2) find another line of work because he is obviously to big of a **** bag to do the one he has been entrusted to do.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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Sep 2001
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


I see nothing in Catholicism barring capital punishment.


Thou shalt not kill doesn't count?

Drake Tungsten is offline Drake Tungsten
Prince
Knee deep in alien womyn...
Oct 2001
time: 14:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:31
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quote:
How about we just admite that pharmacists have a job to fill all perscriptions doctor's send them?


I won't, because they don't. The owner of a pharmacy can stock whatever products they want. If they don't want to sell birth control or the morning after pill, that's their choice.

Last edited by Drake Tungsten on 29-03-2005 at 07:38

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:32
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Personally?

I agree with you that turn the other cheek bars capital punishment.

But that particular passage is thou shalt not murder.

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:36
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i dont see how capital punishement isnt murder

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:39
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It is a lawful kill, and can be considered as being not murder, just like killing an enemy during war.

However, I haven't read any precise definition of what precisely constitutes murder in the Bible (my biblical knowledge is far from being the best though), so the word is probably open to a heap of possible interpretations.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:39
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Murder requires an innocent.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:51 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Nope.

A zygote is comprised of a single cell. When cell division has commenced, the child is no longer termed a zygote, but an embryo.


quote:
In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=embryo

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:51
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i dont think any of us are in a place to judge that innocence though.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:53 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
I have had other...

activities that have refocused my attention away.



So to be a pharmacist is now solely about dispensing contraception?


Who the **** cares if it's solely about it, one half about it or 1% about it?

It's part of the job description. You do it or you're liable to be terminated.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:54 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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DanS and BK are arguing at just about the same level here.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
So to be a pharmacist is now solely about dispensing contraception?


So what? It's a part of the job. You can't be a cop if you refuse to use a gun, even if that's not normally part of the job.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:56 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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It must really drive BK insane that BC was the first province to allow the sale of the morning after pill without prescription

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:57
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quote:

prefetal product of conception


Says everything about that definition.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:58
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Well, in any event, it is sometimes an abortifacient. We could sit here and argue it all night (not something I care to do, but if you want to know the normal arguments, then google is your friend), but the most important thing to note is that pharmacists may understand it to be an abortifacient and therefore would fall under such a conscience exception.

Nobody's taking up my invite to attack me on the weakness of the argument with regard to the pill.

Oh well.


And painkillers can also be used to euthanize. So ****ing what?

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:59
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Many different medications can be used to commit suicide

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
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  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:59 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Why?

Fetus is defined as being from the 8th week onwards

At least that what the Jesuit priest who taught me "Love and Human Sexuality" in 11th grade said.

Agathon is offline Agathon
Prince
Leafs 4TW!! - CPA
Dec 2002
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:59
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Isn't this on the wrong track? Pharmacies are left up to private markets to serve the public good, not because of the "moral rights of pharmacists.

Markets work when businesses supply things that people need and which are legal. If they stop doing this, then it is time for the state to intervene to ensure supply -- either by regulation or by replacing private businesses with public utilities.

This is a crushingly obvious feature of our society. It has absolutely nothing to do with individual rights, and everything to do with tuning economic relationships to maximize efficiency and make sure that people get what they need.

Generally, markets work well enough so that people who wish to refrain from supplying certain legal items may do so (for example: the corner store I worked in part time did not stock pornographic magazines). The competitive mechanism is supposed to ensure that people who want Playboy can buy it at another store. It doesn't always work, but it works quite well.

On the other hand the costs of entry to the competition sometimes mean that one local store can exercise a regional monopoly. In this case it is the government's job to step in and make sure that the monopoly does not effect the delivery of legal goods to those who want them.

In the case of pharmaceuticals we aren't dealing with something trivial like one man's masturbatory aid, but with things that are often vital to people's health. The state has the right to compel pharmacists to offer legal items for sale if it is not feasible for people to get them anywhere else.

If you don't like this, don't become a pharmacist. The community and the state allow you the right to go into business and offer various protections to your economic activities because you provide a service that people need. If you stop providing that service, then the government has the right to intervene.

It's just the reverse of privatization or deregulation. The arguments in those cases are that private ownership or lesser regulation will increase the efficiency of service delivery, and sometimes they are right. On the other hand it runs both ways, sometimes changes in the economy mean it is more efficient for the state to deliver a certain good or that more regulations will improve matters.

Economic rights are part of the social contract, and that contract can be revised when one party stops fulfilling its obligations. There's a simple answer for people who don't want to dispense contraceptives: don't become a pharmacist. That's the same as a Hindu deciding not to work at McDonalds.

When your individual business decisions start to impact the health of the community, it is time that the state intervened on its behalf.

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 07:59 Visit DanS's homepage!
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Kuci: ???

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:00
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quote:

The fertilized egg of a vertebrate animal following cleavage.

In humans, the prefetal product of conception from implantation through the eighth week of development.


This is what you didn't quote.

Why should there be one definition for humans and one for all the other animals? Are human beings so unique as to deserve differential treatment?

MRT144 is offline MRT144
Chieftain
Seattle Washington
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:01
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bk doesnt care about definitions really. as soon as that little spermy is in the egg its a life.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:02
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quote:
Originally posted by DanS
Kuci: ???


ZOMFG!!! This drug can possibly do something to which I have some sort of moral objection! Teh evil! Teh evil!

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:02
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quote:

Fetus is defined as being from the 8th week onwards


That's the general convention, which can also apply to a similar stage of development in the gestation of other animals.

KrazyHorse is offline KrazyHorse
King
Macedonia
May 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:02 Visit KrazyHorse's homepage!
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Ben, you dork. Humans are treated differently because there is an entire branch of biology devoted to studying and treating human beings called medicine.

The definitions are more exact in the case of human beings and offer further distinctions between stages.

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:03
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quote:

bk doesnt care about definitions really.


I care a great deal. Why else would I post?

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
Emperor
of Schmooism
Feb 2001
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:04
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This kind of rapage makes me feel unclean

Ben Kenobi is offline Ben Kenobi
Emperor
McGregornobi!
Oct 2002
time: 21:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:05
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quote:

The definitions are more exact in the case of human beings and offer further distinctions between stages.


How is implantation more precise than 'cleavage' that is to say, when the process of cell division begins?

DanS is offline DanS
Emperor
Kickball Capital of the World
Jan 1970
time: 00:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:05 Visit DanS's homepage!
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quote:
ZOMFG!!! This drug can possibly do something to which I have some sort of moral objection! Teh evil! Teh evil!


I don't think you get it.

Spiffor is offline Spiffor
Emperor
CPA - Evil Clone brigade
Nov 2001
time: 06:29
  Old Post 29-03-2005 08:05
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