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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ned
Che, there are 30,000 people in a PVS state today. Should we pull the plug on all of them? |
Yes, there is no logical reason such former people should be kept alive. It's a waste of resouces for what is in effect, a living memorial to what used to be a human being. We, however, are not solely motivated by logical, so emotions enter into the equation, which is why there shold be guidelines.
One a person enters a PVS, there is no hope of recovery. They cease to be a person. What was once there is gone forever. Even if the brain could be rebuilt, the person could never be recovered. A new person could inhabit that body, and that would open up a new can of legal and ethical worms.
The only reason to keep a person in PVS is because the family isn't ready to let go. That's not a good enough reason for the enormous wastes of resources that could be used to help others.
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Ned
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of Aptos, CA
Oct 1999
time: 21:30
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xp
Last edited by Ned on 01-04-2005 at 22:17
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:30
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quote:
You are assuming that PVS means no consciousness. The problem with this analysis is that PVS is broader than that, at least in this case. |
...
the very definition of PVS means that they have no consciousness. if Schiavo's condition allowed her to have consciousness, then she wouldn't have PVS.
quote:
It is also interesting to note that the issue of PVS itself was hotly contested. The Judge relied on three physcians, two appointed by Schiavo and one by the court, to ultimately rule that Terri was in a PVS because she had no hope of recovery. |
and the people contesting the diagnosis of PVS are those with little or no medical training in the field, or those who are doing it for political reasons. those who did the counter diagnosis likewise spent little time doing so.
sorry, i can't buy the allegation that she was conscious when the evidence points against it: liquified cortex, and the fact that PVS patients can exhibit things that look like consciousness, but aren't.
occam's razor.
it's a far simpler explanation than: schiavo was alive, but was somehow paralyzed by some vast left-wing conspiracy that did everything in its power to classify her as all-but-dead through shoddy diagnoses, even though she really was truly conscious-just not conscious enough to make her wishes truly known.
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Q Cubed
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t3h y3ll0w p3ril
Apr 1999
time: 23:30
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quote:
I am against the death penalty. I am also against aborting viable fetuses. I am against torturing people to death, as we saw with Terri Schiavo. |
i'm just as pro-life as you, with the exception that i quite frankly don't think it's any of the government's business to intervene in cases like Schiavo and abortion--why? because those fall under the realm of personal liberty.
The courts determined that Schiavo was all but dead. If it was wrong, then yes, it is truly a tragedy.
Only problem is, I don't think it's wrong. Yes, the brain can regenerate, to an extent, functions that it has lost when parts of it have been destroyed--which is why some people can see, even though their visual cortex is mostly trashed.
However, that requires some form of complexity--and if what I'm reading of her brain's condition is correct, she had nothing left that was complex enough to even remotely take over some of the functions of consciousness.
Add to that the fact that everything can be explained by the very nature of PVS makes me quite skeptical of your side's claims.
Also, Congress, therefore, exceeded its bounds, and the shrill denunciations of liberals, the husband and whoever else are what really helped to turn me off to your side.
As far as "torturing her to death" goes, it's a very nice piece of rhetoric, but honestly, if someone is permanently unconscious and cannot actually feel anything (evidence suggests that Schiavo was unable to react to external pain stimuli), how is that torture? Torture by its very nature requires pain to be a factor.
Were she truly conscious, with her inability to communicate with the outside world, would she not be suffering from vast mental torture of isolation?
It's a beautiful piece of rhetoric, Ned, this notion that she was tortured to death. It just smacks of sensationalism and speculation to me--and therefore, unhelpful.
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Wycoff
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara Yes, there is no logical reason such former people should be kept alive. It's a waste of resouces for what is in effect, a living memorial to what used to be a human being. We, however, are not solely motivated by logical, so emotions enter into the equation, which is why there shold be guidelines.
One a person enters a PVS, there is no hope of recovery. They cease to be a person. What was once there is gone forever. Even if the brain could be rebuilt, the person could never be recovered. A new person could inhabit that body, and that would open up a new can of legal and ethical worms.
The only reason to keep a person in PVS is because the family isn't ready to let go. That's not a good enough reason for the enormous wastes of resources that could be used to help others. |
This is a rare moment. I agree with this post 100%, Che.
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Tuberski
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ACK!!! PTHBBPPPTTT!!!!
Feb 2002
time: 23:30
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Yes, there is no logical reason such former people should be kept alive. It's a waste of resouces for what is in effect, a living memorial to what used to be a human being. We, however, are not solely motivated by logical, so emotions enter into the equation, which is why there shold be guidelines.
One a person enters a PVS, there is no hope of recovery. They cease to be a person. What was once there is gone forever. Even if the brain could be rebuilt, the person could never be recovered. A new person could inhabit that body, and that would open up a new can of legal and ethical worms.
The only reason to keep a person in PVS is because the family isn't ready to let go. That's not a good enough reason for the enormous wastes of resources that could be used to help others. |
You do know you agree with the Bush law here in Texas that people were bringing up, right?
 ACK!
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01-04-2005 21:29
There's a difference between not supporting someone who has PMV and killing someone who doesn't contribute to society.
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