01-04-2005 23:31									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski No, the point is that che agrees with Bush. Bush was surely a hypocrite. ACK!

...and your point? You can hate a politican's guts while agreeing on him on some positions.

	01-04-2005 23:32									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Bill3000 ...and your point? You can hate a politican's guts while agreeing on him on some positions.

My point is that it would be a first for Che with regards to Bush.

ACK!

	01-04-2005 23:57									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Che, there are 30,000 people in a PVS state today. Should we pull the plug on all of them?

yes

	01-04-2005 23:59									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Ned One thing we ought to do is outlaw starving people to death and substitute the so-called hot shots we saw in Million Dollar Baby.

you do realize that's a fictional movie right? Nothing like that happens in real life (in actuality, the movie has many innacuracies)

You are the typical conservative ruining the movie for others because you don't like the "liberal" message.

	02-04-2005 01:27									#215
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski No, the point is that che agrees with Bush. Bush was surely a hypocrite. ACK!

Even a broken clock is right twice a day (unless it's on military time). Even Bush can occassionally do the right thing.

	02-04-2005 01:27									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Tuberski My point is that it would be a first for Che with regards to Bush. ACK!

It's not. I agree with Bush on the temporary workers' visas.

	02-04-2005 02:28									#217
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I agree with you, Ned, but I don't think it's gonna happen in states controled by conservatives. Oh, and by the way, yer a dick. I told you I hand't seen the movie.

Che, my deepest apology.

	02-04-2005 02:30									#218
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious Communists are the most beneficial members of society. They contribute the least amount to the capitalist system.

Why of course Kid. We could create havens for Nazis who would do away with Commies, and co-equal Commie states that would do away with Nazis. In this way, we would have equal rights for both views.

	02-04-2005 02:37									#219
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Q Cubed, your bit about the brain "regenerating" is something I didn't know about until a doctor called into a talk show today and explained the phenomenon. Apparently you can destroy brain matter, but the functions previously performed by the destroyed tissue can be assumed by other tissue. Also, this ability declines with age. But Terri was 26 when the event happened, which might be young enough.

Regardless, the autopsy may be able to tell us something about what was left of her brain. The Judge's opinion itself acknowledged that some of her cerebral cortex remained.

	02-04-2005 02:39									#220
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brains do not regenerate. But they can rewire themselves assuming there is enough living brain matter to rewire to.

	02-04-2005 02:40									#221
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident brains do not regenerate. But they can rewire themselves assuming there is enough living brain matter to rewire to.

Yeah. The doctor said the ability to "rewire" is known as a "plastic" ability.

	02-04-2005 03:00									#222
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Finally!

In my opinion, she should have been given the same quick and "painless" ending as the guys in death row, once the court made its decision. 13 days of slow thirst was the worst possible outcome. Or else her parents should have the right to feed her at their own expense.

	02-04-2005 03:01									#223
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident brains do not regenerate. But they can rewire themselves assuming there is enough living brain matter to rewire to.

Actually they can. But not easily.

	02-04-2005 04:20									#224
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The brains have to want to regenerate.

	02-04-2005 05:29									#225
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DIE THREAD

	02-04-2005 05:32									#226
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quote: Originally posted by Ned Apparently you can destroy brain matter, but the functions previously performed by the destroyed tissue can be assumed by other tissue.

That depends on how much of the brain is left. If her whole cerebral cortex hadn't been destroyed, this might have been possible.

	02-04-2005 05:32									#227
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar DIE THREAD

Is this one of those occasions when one gets to say, "Own goal"?

	02-04-2005 19:55									#228
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara That depends on how much of the brain is left. If her whole cerebral cortex hadn't been destroyed, this might have been possible.

Some people are born like that - should they be starved to death too?

	02-04-2005 19:56									#229
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quote: Originally posted by Kidicious The brains have to want to regenerate.

to your outstanding grasp of biology

	02-04-2005 20:11									#230
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Some people are born like that - should they be starved to death too?

I think we ultimately end up with a "quality of life" determination by the family and the courts. If you read the judge's multiple opinions in this case, it is clear that "quality of life" was the gravamon of the decision by the court.

This descision can quickly be extended to situations where the person, under no terminal disease, cannot live a "normal" life. Severely handicapped or retarded people, or those suffering severe chronic pain, will be next.

But you say, those cases do no involve withdrawing a feeding tube. True, but this case did more than just withdraw a feeding tube, did it not? The court's order actively prevented anyone from giving Terri food or water by other means.

	02-04-2005 20:14									#231
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yeah I think we're on a slippery slope here

	02-04-2005 22:08									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse Some people are born like that - should they be starved to death too?

I don't think anyone's endorsing starvation, dipshit.

	02-04-2005 22:09									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse yeah I think we're on a slippery slope here

A slope of conseravtive stupidity.

	02-04-2005 22:34									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Kuciwalker to your outstanding grasp of biology

Yeah, well you know if they don't regenerate they must not want to really. That's perfect logic.

	02-04-2005 23:00									#235
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quote: Originally posted by Ned This descision can quickly be extended to situations where the person, under no terminal disease, cannot live a "normal" life. Severely handicapped or retarded people, or those suffering severe chronic pain, will be next.

	03-04-2005 00:30									#236
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse yeah I think we're on a slippery slope here

I hate that term. It doesn't apply here. Common sense will win out. Do you all think americans will stand idly by while the goverment slaughters millions of disabled people?

and don't go on about the nazis. If people can't see the difference between nazi germany and the U.S., then they belong in a concentration camp . Freedom of press and speech will ensure every single death is known to every american.

	03-04-2005 03:57									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident I hate that term. It doesn't apply here. Common sense will win out. Do you all think americans will stand idly by while the goverment slaughters millions of disabled people? and don't go on about the nazis. If people can't see the difference between nazi germany and the U.S., then they belong in a concentration camp . Freedom of press and speech will ensure every single death is known to every american.

Government?

No, their relatives. It is just a matter of time. The Supremes in Cruzan and other cases held there was a "liberty" right under the Due Process Clause that prevented states from placing bans on relatives who wanted to pull the plug on their incapacitated family members. What happened in Florida was worse than just pulling the plug, as we all know. The Florida courts there ordered that neither the parents or anyone else could provide food and water to Terri. The Federal Courts seems more than uninterested. They seem downright hostile to reviewing the Florida case.

I understand that the Oregon statute that permits assisted suicide is going to be reviewed by the Supremes. Now, given the apathy of the Court in the Schiavo case, how do you think they will come out in that case?

	03-04-2005 04:33									#238
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quote: Q Cubed, your bit about the brain "regenerating" is something I didn't know about until a doctor called into a talk show today and explained the phenomenon. Apparently you can destroy brain matter, but the functions previously performed by the destroyed tissue can be assumed by other tissue. Also, this ability declines with age. But Terri was 26 when the event happened, which might be young enough.

it's young enough to regenerate some of its functions... or it would be, if her enough of her cortex remained.

the one flaw to your bizarre hope in this case is the simple fact that there really wasn't enough of her cortex to rewire and assume such function--and the other parts, such as the cerebellum and the medulla, are incapable of assuming higher consciousness.

	03-04-2005 04:38									#239
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I don't have a problem with people defending that someone should not be assisted to die. Only when it doesn't include everyone, you and me. Just some people. THat is.. h y p o c ... you know the rest.

	03-04-2005 05:21									#240
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quote: Originally posted by Ned I understand that the Oregon statute that permits assisted suicide is going to be reviewed by the Supremes. Now, given the apathy of the Court in the Schiavo case, how do you think they will come out in that case?

I'm hopeing it will be a victory to those of us who think poeple should be allowed to live and die with dignity instead of being forced to remain alive to satisfy some religious person's emotions.