01-04-2005 10:52									#31
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She apologized in 1988 at a time when New England vets ( You know? The soldiers che says were rooting for her) were disrupting a film project she was working on. I'm not aware that it has been offered again. So what is this thread about?

	01-04-2005 10:54									#32
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Really, chegitz? Perhaps if Bush Sr let the military do their job, we wouldn't had that Iraq invasion in the first place since Saddam would have been already took care of back then.

Different war, different president, different decade.

Talk about a non-sequitor.

Strike one!

	01-04-2005 10:54									#33
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc She apologized in 1988 at a time when New England vets

Hmmm, 15 years after the war . . I guess that doesn't apply. Strike two, try again!

	01-04-2005 10:57									#34
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I guess that doesn't apply

What doesn't apply?

	01-04-2005 10:57									#35
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc She apologized in 1988 at a time when New England vets ( You know? The soldiers che says were rooting for her) were disrupting a film project she was working on. I'm not aware that it has been offered again. So what is this thread about?

watch 60 minutes sunday, and you'll see.

	01-04-2005 10:58									#36
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What doesn't apply?

Comparing something 15 years after the events in the war I described.

	01-04-2005 11:02									#37
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World pollution, there's no solution
Institution, electrocution
Just black and white, rich or poor
Senators stop the war

-10 years after

	01-04-2005 11:14									#39
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara Comparing something 15 years after the events in the war I described.

You said soldiers loved her right?

	01-04-2005 11:27									#40
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc You said soldiers loved her right?

During the war, not after.

	01-04-2005 11:28									#41
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What changed?

	01-04-2005 11:29									#42
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quote: Originally posted by Barinthus Really, chegitz? Perhaps if Bush Sr let the military do their job, we wouldn't had that Iraq invasion in the first place since Saddam would have been already took care of back then.

Powel didn't want to go to Bagdad then either.

	01-04-2005 11:32									#43
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc What changed?

The whole country. Soldiers began reassessing the war, their experiences, how they felt about it. They forgot they were the biggest part of the antiwar movement and started blaiming politicians for not letting them win the war, that Vietnam still had POW slaves, and other fantasies.

	01-04-2005 11:32									#44
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Viet girls are way cuter than Jane Fonda anyway so I consider the point moot.

	01-04-2005 11:54									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral if her actions are construed to be harmful to the moral or whathaveyou of the US troops, it would only matter if Vietnam was a conflict that the US could have won.

quote: Originally posted by Admiral But, war is an instrument of political policy (clausewitz: "war is politics by other means."), and especially in a people's war, the politics become much more important than the actual fighting.

Aren't you sort of going in circles here?

The US couldn't have won? Why? The American people were defeated in the livingroom.

She shouldn't be blamed because that defeat was inevitable even though she was one of the weapons used by the NV to win?

It wasn't inevitable. It just happens that the NV picked a strategy, get the Yanks out by attacking morale on the home front before moving on to take over the South.

It worked, but there was nothing inevitable about it.

	01-04-2005 12:13									#46
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North Vietnamese patriotism was so high that it was inevitable, or at least the only other way the war would have ended is if everyone in Vietnam got killed. The war completely destroyed the infrastructure in the country and killed 10% of the North Vietnamese population.

	01-04-2005 12:20									#47
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you lost get over it

	01-04-2005 12:26									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Smiley North Vietnamese patriotism was so high that it was inevitable, or at least the only other way the war would have ended is if everyone in Vietnam got killed. The war completely destroyed the infrastructure in the country and killed 10% of the North Vietnamese population.

And they kept going in the face of this destruction because?

Could it be that they glimpsed the possibility of victory by winning in American newsrooms and livingrooms?

	01-04-2005 12:59									#49
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Ever time I've fact-checked you, you've been a moron.

So, who managed to kill more civilians again?

	01-04-2005 13:00									#50
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Jane Fonda
America in the vietnam war

	01-04-2005 13:09									#51
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So, who managed to kill more civilians again?

How many more civilians died because the NV continued fighting no matter the human cost because of useful tools like Hanoi Jane who gave them hope that they could win while losing?

How many more civilians died when the North took over the South?

	01-04-2005 13:15									#52
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Shhh, nye. This is a a private moment between me and GP.

I'm reminiscing.

	01-04-2005 13:19									#53
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Oh. Well, carry on then.

	01-04-2005 18:39									#54
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So, who managed to kill more civilians again?

You on the other hand, have born up much better than fluffy Indymediaman.

	01-04-2005 18:41									#55
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borne?

	01-04-2005 18:50									#56
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Deja Vu shes been there done that and apologized already why the sudden news flash? Now if Kerry had actually apologized that might have made news.


OTOH the most important part of the news story was that she was all into 3 ways.

	01-04-2005 18:55									#57
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And they kept going in the face of this destruction because?

They would rather die than be subjugated by americans. That's the thing about a people's war, the most likely outcomes are either victory for the people, or genocide of the people.

The "war in the news rooms" was not an NV strategy... they reacted to it, but it was not initiated by them. They where focused on the war in the ricefields - winning over the korean population, and they largely succeded in that. That is where america lost, not "in the news rooms". The "news rooms" merey prevented america from fighting a battle it could not win (or possibly commiting the genocide that would ultimately be required to "win").

	03-04-2005 05:06									#58
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc She apologized in 1988 at a time when New England vets ( You know? The soldiers che says were rooting for her) were disrupting a film project she was working on. I'm not aware that it has been offered again. So what is this thread about?

References?

As I recall it was not so much an apology as a mealy-mouthed leave-me-alone-it-was-a-long-time-ago excuse.

	03-04-2005 05:12									#59
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither And they kept going in the face of this destruction because? Could it be that they glimpsed the possibility of victory by winning in American newsrooms and livingrooms?

So what kept them fighting against the Chinese for independence for four hundred years? Did they think the Chinese would be beaten in the living room? They had been fighting for thirty years against the Japanese, French, and the United States. What makes you think they were going to give up if we invaded the North and started a war with the PRC and the USSR?

	03-04-2005 05:13									#60
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse So, who managed to kill more civilians again?

He was addressing me. And he was wrong.