04-04-2005 21:01									#151
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Ford, GM, Chrysler...it doesn't matter much, really. They're all in the same boat. You didn't prove that it was not true, you proved that they are indeed less reliable than the big Japanese brands. IMO, that makes them junk. It's like buying a Zenith TV over a Sony TV...you just don't do it.

You are being dense as can be. Here's the brands with the highest quality notice how seven of them are American including three of the top five.

Lexus - 162
Buick - 187
Infinity - 189
Linclon - 194
Cadalliac - 196
Honda - 209
Acura - 212
Toyota - 216
Mercury - 224
Porche - 240
Chevrolet - 262
GMC - 262
BMW - 264
Saab - 265
Saturn - 267

BTW Sony TVs have gone to **** over the last decade. Most of them are at best middle of the road quality wise. It seems you are about as well informed on electronics as you are on cars.

	04-04-2005 21:04									#152
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Escort Cosworth for example. No comparison what so ever with the american Escort. Anybody wonders why american cars have no succes in anyother country than Canada and the US, unlike japaneese and euro cars? Please..... Spec.

I guess you've never been to Latin America or to the middle east. Kuwait and Iraq are over run by American cars as are many (if not most) Latin American countries. You need to travel more before you make sweeping (and untrue) claims.

Also the Escort hasn't been made in years and years. The Cosworth was originally an after market tuner which got permission to sell directly out of Ford dealers. I assure you there are tuners which work similiar magic in the states.

	04-04-2005 21:07									#153
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Yep, reputation still sells.
I had problems with the last two sony TVs that I bought. After the warrenty but before the 7 year mark.
That had never happened before. I usually didn't have any problems till after the 12-15 year mark.
I used to laugh when they'd offer an extended warrenty on a sony, saying, "I'm buying a Sony so I don't need one"

Eventually their falling quality will catch up to them. Kind of like Japanesse cars in the beginning, their quality sucked and even after they started improving, it took a long time before Americans started believing it. If it hadn't been for the gas shortages in the 70's most people would have still resisted.

	04-04-2005 21:11									#154
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I didn't even read your response about Sony when I typed that. I guess we've both been reading the same articles. My parents bought a 32 inch Sony Trinitron for the living room (they have a big Toshiba in the family room) and it lasted two years before it died. Its warrenty was just 6 months! I'll never buy a Sony again and instead I've been told great things abut Panasonic, JVC, & Toshiba.

I like a lot of Samsung designs but my experience with Korean built stuff is that they fall apart quickly. Unlike Asher I will admit that is a personal bias which isn't backed up by hard facts though.

Last edited by Oerdin on 04-04-2005 at 21:27

	04-04-2005 21:21									#155
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NEC and Toshiba are great TVs. Sonys are dropping with every study done. While picture quality is still there, product quality isn't... unless you are buying one of their top of the line products.

	04-04-2005 21:48									#156
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin You are being dense as can be. Here's the brands with the highest quality notice how seven of them are American including three of the top five.

For the last time...those figures are under warranty periods, of which American cars are designed to operate.

quote: BTW Sony TVs have gone to **** over the last decade. Most of them are at best middle of the road quality wise. It seems you are about as well informed on electronics as you are on cars.

I was saying buying a Zenith over a Sony TV...

It doesn't matter if Sony's quality is falling (I am NOT a fan of Sony, BTW), it's still lightyears beyond the American crap like Zenith.

	04-04-2005 22:02									#157
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I guess you've never been to Latin America or to the middle east. Kuwait and Iraq are over run by American cars as are many (if not most) Latin American countries. You need to travel more before you make sweeping (and untrue) claims.

Ok, so I missed afew countries. Then let me ask again, why is it that american cars have no succes in MOST of the world (which is mostly in INDUSTRIALIZED countries other than Canada and the US..)

True claim. Can you answer me this Oerdin? Why is it that american cars have no succes in MOST of europe and Asia? And foreign cars have succes in Canada and US than american cars have elsewhere.

quote: Also the Escort hasn't been made in years and years. The Cosworth was originally an after market tuner which got permission to sell directly out of Ford dealers. I assure you there are tuners which work similiar magic in the states.

Exactly. So? Ford didn't bother to get it in the US. And the escort in europe comes 4 wheel drive....not here it doesn't. Focus also comes 4x4 in europe, why not here. American cars in europe are VERY VERY different from the ones we get here. But from japan, we pretty much have the same cars, only the engines are less powerful. (aside from the makes we dont have, Skyline, Cosmo, Starlet, Chaser and so on.

Spec.

	04-04-2005 22:34									#158
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In the case of of the Mazda3, NA gets the more powerful car. The 2 engines available in Europe are the 1.8L and 2.0L, here it's 2.0L and 2.3L.

	04-04-2005 22:37									#159
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quote: Originally posted by Asher It doesn't matter if Sony's quality is falling (I am NOT a fan of Sony, BTW), it's still lightyears beyond the American crap like Zenith.

Well yes it does. There still is a perception that they are top of the line in quality (obviously since you still have that perception). It will take a few more years before they'll take the perception hit.

I think it's the same for some US cars. In a few more years some of the perceptions will change as the short term quality increases translate into longer ones. I'm not going to guarentee it, but I have to keep an open mind about it.

	04-04-2005 22:39									#160
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quote: Originally posted by rah Well yes it does. There still is a perception that they are top of the line in quality (obviously since you still have that perception).

When did I say Sony was top of the line?

It was a convenient example of a product better than Zenith.

I'm a huge Samsung fan recently.

Samsung used to be known as a cheap brand, but in the span of a few years it's known as a quality brand now...except in cases of people with bias, like Oerdin.

	04-04-2005 22:54									#161
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quote: You are being dense as can be. Here's the brands with the highest quality notice how seven of them are American including three of the top five.

Asher's position seems to be that if you're not #1 then you suck.

It's also why he's a MS fanboy working for IBM.

Must kill him, being Canadian.

	04-04-2005 23:09									#162
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Asher's position seems to be that if you're not #1 then you suck. It's also why he's a MS fanboy working for IBM. Must kill him, being Canadian.

Why would you settle for 2nd-best?

You may live your life like that, but I sure as hell don't.

	04-04-2005 23:11									#163
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT [q] Must kill him, being Canadian.

Your Canadian JohnT?

And how can moderators Jack a thread? Thought this thread was about ford.....well....cars, not how Sony sucked the last few years.

On that subject, the problem that Sony has, or develloped is that they have secondary companies making their TVs and stereo systems (for cars) and they just apply the name Sony on it. They only devellope the technology and make others build it, unlike in the mid 90s and before.

Well, that's what I have been told. Is that true?

Spec.

	05-04-2005 03:18									#164
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT [q]Must kill him, being Canadian.

Now, now. Your jealousy is evident...

	05-04-2005 03:38									#165
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Why would you settle for 2nd-best? You may live your life like that, but I sure as hell don't.

so you are saying you are the best at what you do?

there's always someone better.

	05-04-2005 03:47									#166
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Ok, so I missed afew countries. Then let me ask again, why is it that american cars have no succes in MOST of the world (which is mostly in INDUSTRIALIZED countries other than Canada and the US..)

Very simple. They don't export and instead they have spent big money buying local brands. GM & Ford have owned European, Japanese, and Australian brands for most of the last century and in the 80's they added even more local brands into their portfolio. It simply doesn't make sense to build a ground up network when you can buy a complete network with a locally recognizable name for a fraction of the price.

The truth is the big three sell tons of cars in Europe and have a larger market share then the Japanese. Fully one third of the Japanese makes are controlled by the big three and even Korea's Hyundai is minority owned by them. They build locally because you save on trasportation expenses and you don't have to worry about currency fluctuations. Face it man, you are wrong.

	05-04-2005 03:53									#167
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Ford's European cars are very, very different from their American cars.

All of the auto companies design different cars for different markets to reflect different desires by the buyers. Gas prices are high in Europe so most cars are small with small engines or disiel engines, Japan hates diseils so none are offered there and they love more high tech so everything from engines to suspensions have to be the latest (and most expensive), Latin America hates high tech and their roads often suck so they want rugged and dependable cars with old fashioned suspensions that last longer against pot holes, North Americans tend to see small cars as socially unacceptable so they demand large cars with large engines same goes for Australia, China wants small cheap cars, Africa & the rest of Asia pretty much want the absolute cheapest car they can get. Different cars for different markets is the way to go and that's what every company does.

	05-04-2005 03:56									#168
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quote: Originally posted by Spec Exactly. So? Ford didn't bother to get it in the US. And the escort in europe comes 4 wheel drive....not here it doesn't.

Not for the better part of a decade. The escort was discontinued in the 1990s and replaced by the Focus which was supposed to be a "world car" but like I said in my previous post world cars never work. The reason is different markets demand different things and its next to impossible to design one car which makes everyone happy. You need multiple designs to fill everyone's desires.

	05-04-2005 04:02									#169
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quote: Originally posted by Dissident so you are saying you are the best at what you do? there's always someone better.

There's always something to strive for -- I'm not saying I'm the best. I'm saying when given a choice between a superior Product A and an inferior Product B, I'll take the superior product.