05-04-2005 04:28									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Rufus You have been a great source of info on this thread. It seems to me that the Administration would definetly have benefited from a more cooperationalist attitude towards the deal and not, here is what we require, now do it type of attitude. That doesn't particularly work as good as the alternative (cooperation).

Hey, it's my job.

	05-04-2005 04:41									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Atahualpa Well TCO, I don't want to question America's rights as what to do with their borders (except when it would fail with human rights), BUT the whole world has shifted to be way more global than before and America is profiting a LOT from that, so you can't neglect one thing and use the other. The days where you can say: **** the rest we can do what we want are numbered; the more everyone gets involved in everyone elses business just like America gets involved in pretty lot businesses pretty everywhere on the globe, wouldn't you agree? In fact it would be nice to see more kind of cooperation, but the US stance is always perceived as: do as we say! So true, I've been trying to help a Russian (Uzbek) enter the EU. He told me it would be easier if I sign a paper saying that I will take responsibility for him and pay for all the costs that he could possibly have here (provide lodging, food, pay for medical treatment should he become ill, accidents,...). Yeah sure Well now he needs a hotel room and whatnotelse. In any case everyone please watch your language.

Put this in your pipe and smoke it. You ARE NOT a citizen of the US. When Americans go over and tell other people what to do, I have no problem with them being held up as insensative. But every frigging Mozart-kugel eating lederhosen-wearing Steirer buhr thinks he can tell us what do with our death penalty and our border controls and our defense budget. Butt-out *******!

	05-04-2005 05:25									#123
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It's not your death penalty. Countries have no right to kill anyone ever. The US does not have the jurisdiction to impose a death penalty on anyone, including its citizens.

	05-04-2005 05:50									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui It seems to me that the Administration would definetly have benefited from a more cooperationalist attitude towards the deal and not, here is what we require, now do it type of attitude.

As an insider I can tell that after 9/11 there was a lot almost blind panic from the Administration, remember at the time there were fears of further attacks including possibly using NBC weapons, they really did believe that, anything seemed possible.

This played out officially as the USG just announcing new security measures and telling its allies and others you have to comply with measure x or y, or do x or y. That grated a lot, especially because some of the measures were not very well thought through. Some of the people the administration appointed as security "Tsars" didn't have a lot of experience, especially dealing with other countries and there were some abrasive personalities involved - ex cops and the like.

Consultation and cooperation was not their strong suit. These were more command and control, kick ass guys. Also remember the US agencies were in turmoil while the homeland security administration was being set up.

When flaws and problems were pointed out the attitude was often very defensive like you really weren't "on the team" but often countries were just pointing out practical problems. This biometric passport business was caught up in all of that.

So there Rufus, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

	05-04-2005 08:58									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse So there Rufus, put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Uh, that's pretty much what I've been saying.

You taking reading comprehension lessons from TCO now?

	05-04-2005 12:54									#126
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nah, I know, I just felt like writing it

	05-04-2005 13:01									#127
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I don't know how much longer I can take these morons.

I thought Wolfowitz appointment to the World Bank was a joke but it's more like a bad nightmare.

I hope that we can appoint WWE Wrestling sensation Triple H to Diplomacy Czar.

	05-04-2005 13:02									#128
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HAS THE RICE EXPORT TARIFF BEEN LIFTED YET?????

	05-04-2005 13:20									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker I don't know how much longer I can take these morons. I thought Wolfowitz appointment to the World Bank was a joke but it's more like a bad nightmare. I hope that we can appoint WWE Wrestling sensation Triple H to Diplomacy Czar.

You know what you need to do Ted? Get off the sidelines and get involved in politics. Win or lose you'll feel a whole lot better.

	05-04-2005 13:22									#130
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You are right of course.

Right now I'm in with my pocketbook. What else should I be doing? Volunteering?

Arguing with the fundies doesn't seem to cut it. It's like listening to a bunch of partisan soundbites over and over again. They should just turn on Rush Limbaugh and have me listen to that instead.

Somehow critical thinking went out the window. People have forgotten how to see past all the BS.

	05-04-2005 13:27									#131
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well basically the christian right took control because noone else could be bothered going to meetings

same happened here

we really only have ourselves to blame

	05-04-2005 14:01									#132
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quote: Originally posted by TCO Put this in your pipe and smoke it. You ARE NOT a citizen of the US. When Americans go over and tell other people what to do, I have no problem with them being held up as insensative. But every frigging Mozart-kugel eating lederhosen-wearing Steirer buhr thinks he can tell us what do with our death penalty and our border controls and our defense budget. Butt-out *******!

Ah yes of course the victim that is called the US
Sorry, but in reality it's not a single bit like you want to portrait it. Any public person has to bear public criticism and a country like the US with a tremendous amount of influence of the world politics has this as well.
That's just the way it is and you have to live with it. You can't have one thing without the other...

	05-04-2005 15:19									#133
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I see where the pipe smoking reference came from now

The US has gone completely nuts since 9/11. There is no doubt about it.

	05-04-2005 15:39									#134
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quote: Originally posted by TCO I think we are poor in tradecraft (and linguistics is just an example of that). You have to have people who really care about their job and create an ethic that this is much more than a government posting. CIA is full of middle manager buttkiss types. It is antithesis of Naval Reactors or SEAL TEAM organizations or whatever.

Perhaps we should allow the SEALs and the CIA to switch jobs? The CIA did a good job taking over Afghanistan, while the SEALs seem to take a lot of casualties whenever they take the field. Plus I'm sure that the SEALs couldn't possibly do a worse job in many ways than the CIA has running aspects of our intelligence operations.

	05-04-2005 15:43									#135
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or you could just.....

	05-04-2005 16:27									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse what happened to the spirit of Ellis Island

It's in Guantanamo Bay awaiting trial as an illegal alien with possible terrorist connections.

	05-04-2005 19:08									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Sikander Perhaps we should allow the SEALs and the CIA to switch jobs? The CIA did a good job taking over Afghanistan, while the SEALs seem to take a lot of casualties whenever they take the field. Plus I'm sure that the SEALs couldn't possibly do a worse job in many ways than the CIA has running aspects of our intelligence operations.

1. I'm addressing the intelligence gathering and analysis, not covert military operations. But if you want to segue, there was an interesting article in Proceedings on this. (Not covering comparison of performance, but more covering some limitations of capability, lack of airlift, etc.)

2. My point is more related to difficulty in managing a function in government where you need top performance. My concern is that CIA is full of sycophant middle managers and such, rather than people who eat and sleep the profession. (I suspect NASA has the same problem.)

3. Added on to that, we have an endemic American problem in not learning languages and other cultures well. Look at how Americans cluster close to the PX when abroad.

-------

But I am using FHA analysis.

	05-04-2005 19:18									#138
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nothing wrong with sycophant middle managers....

	05-04-2005 20:23									#139
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This is not really a big deal. It's been going on for ages - as some people have already pointed out. Countries that do not feel that this is very urgent doesn't really feel like changing everything as fast as the security-crazy americans (at the same time, out of personal experience, the security of Newark International Airport seems pretty easy going compared to Arlanda outside Stockholm). It will cost money and mean some work. So they ***** a bit about it for a couple of years. A few years after the change have been implemented, no one will really understand what the fuzz was all about.

Meanwhile, 12-year olds like TCO have something to write about on their favorite forum. It's all water under the bridge.

	06-04-2005 17:14									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Alexander's Horse nothing wrong with sycophant middle managers....

Yes, self-absorbed upper management could not get along without them.

	06-04-2005 17:17									#141
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Hey this law is nothing. According to the local paper soon American citizens will need a passport in order to re-enter the US from Canada and Mexico. I wonder if this will withstand a Supreme Court challenge?

	06-04-2005 18:09									#142
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Hey this law is nothing. According to the local paper soon American citizens will need a passport in order to re-enter the US from Canada and Mexico. I wonder if this will withstand a Supreme Court challenge?

I don't see why not. Right now, technically, you have to be able to prove that you're an American citizen (or legal permanent resident) to re-enter the US from Mexico or Canada. There are several different documents that are acceptable as proof of citizenship, but the problem is that none of them, except a passport, is particularly secure or difficult to duplicate (I used to use my voter's registration card, which was merely typed on a piece of stiff paper, much like a Social Security card).

And just a guess: if the Feds succeed in pressuring the states into adopting secure, biometric drivers licenses, they'll probably demand that the licenses also contain citizenship info, in which case they'll be used as a substitute for passports for North American travel.

	06-04-2005 19:33									#143
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quote: Originally posted by Kropotkin This is not really a big deal. It's been going on for ages - as some people have already pointed out. Countries that do not feel that this is very urgent doesn't really feel like changing everything as fast as the security-crazy americans (at the same time, out of personal experience, the security of Newark International Airport seems pretty easy going compared to Arlanda outside Stockholm). It will cost money and mean some work. So they ***** a bit about it for a couple of years. A few years after the change have been implemented, no one will really understand what the fuzz was all about. Meanwhile, 12-year olds like TCO have something to write about on their favorite forum. It's all water under the bridge.

Minus the TCO part, I agree with this. It's just jawboning on the part of the US. Squeaky wheel getting the grease, etc. If our congress thinks it will work to be squeaky, then I'm all for it.

	06-04-2005 19:36									#144
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quote: (I suspect NASA has the same problem.)

NASA has a lot of problems, this being one of them. This deserves its own thread.

	25-04-2005 06:07									#145
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I had to bring this thread back from the dead. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the current administration; not just blowhards and bullies, but incompetent blowhards and bullies:

quote: U.S. will not be able to read high-tech foreign passports By Greta Wodele, National Journal's Technology Daily The United States will not be prepared to read high-tech passports of foreign visitors this fall, even if Congress does not extend the deadline for certain foreign countries to have the imbedded biometric technology. "We will not make that deadline," Elaine Dezenski, acting assistant secretary at the Homeland Security Department's border and transportation security directorate, told the House Judiciary Subcommittee On Immigration, Border Security and Claims during a hearing Thursday. Dezenski said the department would not have enough passport readers deployed to every port of entry by Oct. 26, 2005. That date reflects a one-year extension approved by Congress last year requiring every country participating in the "visa waiver" program to have facial recognition technology imbedded into passports or other travel documents by this fall. Many of the 27 countries in the program have said they would once again need another extension to meet the October deadline. Dezenski said 80 percent of travelers from visa waiver countries would not be in compliance. The European Union has asked Congress to extend the deadline until Aug. 28, 2006. But House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., has said recently it is unlikely that Congress would support another extension, arguing several members of the European Union could have used a "less technically ambitious approach" to fulfill the biometric passport requirement. Other lawmakers, both Republicans and Democrats, on the Judiciary panel argued Thursday for an extension. Dezenski said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff would meet with Sensenbrenner next month to discuss the issue. Last year, the department asked for a two-year extension, but Congress only provided one extra year. Former Secretary of State Colin Powell said last year the Bush administration asked for two years out of prudence to help ensure that the secretary would not later have to ask for a second extension. The visa waiver program, which includes close U.S. allies like Australia and the United Kingdom, allows foreign visitors to travel to the United States for tourism or business for 90 days or less without obtaining visas. Supporters of an extension argue that visa-waiver countries contribute billions of dollars to the U.S. economy each year. Without an extension, U.S. consular offices overseas would have to begin issuing more than 5 million more visas, which would create backlogs and long lines at consular offices.

Europe, you may commence sneering in 3. . . 2 . . . 1 . . . now

	25-04-2005 06:08									#146
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*cries*

	25-04-2005 06:26									#147
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Almost missed this...

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Lazy Euros.

	25-04-2005 06:37									#148
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I really would'nt worry. Sensenbrenner is the right wing lunatic who was so bold as to hold up the new Director of National Intelligence legislation for a clause that would have required some proof of being legally in the United States in order to get a driver's license. He was so far off the beaten path on this crazy scheme that even the president was against him.

Pay no heed. Congress is not about to allow this lunatic to harm economic relations with Europe. When there is a choice between economic and security, you can be assured you know where your American congressmen is.

Last edited by Ned on 26-04-2005 at 00:34

	25-04-2005 06:58									#149
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* Spiffor sneers

	25-04-2005 13:02									#150
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quote: But House Judiciary Committee Chairman James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., has said recently it is unlikely that Congress would support another extension, arguing several members of the European Union could have used a "less technically ambitious approach" to fulfill the biometric passport requirement.

Yeah... as if he just forgot that the EU would want a standard of this over all their member countries and not having country X doing things different than country Y.

*sneers*