08-04-2005 21:19									#31
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki So it's a mark of courage and honour to vote for a either a party that would take a massive leftward lurch

If the left lurch is what you want. I assume this is true of NDP supporters yet they voted Liberal b/c they werte afraid of Conservatives.

quote: or one that would unquestioningly take us to war in Iraq,

We supported the war, just not publicly. We increased troops to Afghanistan to free up US troops, we sent ships to the Gulf and we had Cdn military personell embedded in US units. Only the naive believe we didn't play a role.

quote: cut social services

Link? Tell me what they want to cut. There is plenty of room to do that in this socialist utopia...

quote: and has a large and extemely vocal component that's quite socially conservative?

That were not enough to direct policy - see the party convention.

	08-04-2005 21:27									#32
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Looks like we have a good chance at another minority government next time around. Only this time it might be a conservative one.

	08-04-2005 21:46									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Richelieu Looks like we have a good chance at another minority government next time around. Only this time it might be a conservative one.

Whom would the Conservatives ally with? They can't partner with the Liberals because of the scandal, and a Bloc-Conservative alliance wouldn't last long.

	08-04-2005 21:54									#34
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A corrupt Liberal government is still better than an idiotic Conservative government. Besides, the last conservative government was so corrupt that what the Liberals may have done is just child's play in comparison.

	08-04-2005 22:11									#35
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After Mulroney, Harris, Eves. And I don't like or trust Harper. I doubt I will be voting conservative anytime soon.

The conservatives have alot of good ideas, but like their southern counterparts they are a bunch of a$$holes.

	08-04-2005 22:18									#36
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Seems to me if they got a lot of good ideas, someone who's not an idealogue would vote for them, and they ought to be considered.

Certainly puts them a notch above the Liberals who have had 10 years to do something meaningful.

	08-04-2005 22:20									#37
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quote: Whom would the Conservatives ally with?

Why do they need a various flavour of leftish to ally with?

Grab the reins and take it all themselves. Why should federalists in Quebec vote for the Liberals?

	08-04-2005 22:27									#38
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Because we're not conservatives.

	08-04-2005 22:29									#39
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And you represent the majority if Quebecois federalistes?

	08-04-2005 22:31									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Seems to me if they got a lot of good ideas, someone who's not an idealogue would vote for them, and they ought to be considered.

Because once they get in I'm scared of the stuff they will try to do.

On a provincial level Harris gutted our Hospitals and Schools.

	08-04-2005 22:33									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Grab the reins and take it all themselves.

Its harder to get things done when your a minority. You need the other parties to vote for you to help pass your bills.

	08-04-2005 22:36									#42
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Education and health care are managed provincially.

quote: Its harder to get things done when your a minority. You need the other parties to vote for you to help pass your bills.

Who's talking minority?

12 years of Liberal rule is enough.

	08-04-2005 22:39									#43
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster On a provincial level Harris gutted our Hospitals and Schools.

And with a $800 per head health tax and delisting of services Sick Kids hospitals in the province are on the verge of sending patients stateside. Good thing MCGuinty and the Liberals fixed things.

Your problem was not with Harris but rather with Martin. The feds cut transfers to the provinces which resulted in a health crisis across the country.

	08-04-2005 22:41									#44
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Whether provincial or federal, conservatives are cut from the same cloth.

Hell it don't matter for me. My riding always goes conservative on the federal level anyways. It doesn't matter what I vote.

I agree its time for a change. But I bet the conservatives will never get a majority with Harper and his ties to the alliance. Conservatives were better off by themselves with ole goofy clark.

	08-04-2005 22:43									#45
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Except Clark was, and still is, a philosophical Liberal.

	08-04-2005 22:44									#46
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There's a reason why Joe Who is called 'right honourable'.

If the future was with him, why didn't the Conservatives prosper under his tenure?

quote: Whether provincial or federal, conservatives are cut from the same cloth.

And the BC Liberals are as Liberal as the feds? Wake up! The only affiliation between provincial parties and federal parties is the provincial and federal NDP.

	08-04-2005 22:44									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil And with a $800 per head health tax and delisting of services Sick Kids hospitals in the province are on the verge of sending patients stateside. Good thing MCGuinty and the Liberals fixed things. Your problem was not with Harris but rather with Martin. The feds cut transfers to the provinces which resulted in a health crisis across the country.

McGoofy is just pumping money back into Heath Care that Harris took out.

Why did martin cut transfers? To make his budgets look good?

	08-04-2005 22:50									#48
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster McGoofy is just pumping money back into Heath Care that Harris took out.

And services are decreasing. Hell of a plan.

quote: Why did martin cut transfers? To make his budgets look good?

Yep. So he could go out and tell the gullible Canadian public that he wrestled the deficit to the ground and got us on sound financial footing. We bought it.

	08-04-2005 22:55									#49
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Actually, the total deficit of all the provinces and the federal government put together is also decreasing, so Martin wasn't strictly lying.

	08-04-2005 22:58									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi There's a reason why Joe Who is called 'right honourable'. If the future was with him, why didn't the Conservatives prosper under his tenure?

Good question. Why was that? Liberal propaganda? He wasn't right enough for the some of the west so he didn't get their vote?

Is not like the conservatives are prospering under Harpers reign.
It seems like the conservatives only do well when the people get pissed off with the liberals. Like now. Totally reactionary.
But it usually swings back the other way in a couple of years. Back and forth.

	08-04-2005 23:00									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster Good question. Why was that? Liberal propaganda. He wasn't right enough for the some of the west so he didn't get their vote?

The Right Honourable Joe Clark was Prime Minister once. It didn't last.

Prime Ministers are called Right Honourable.

	08-04-2005 23:09									#52
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quote: Originally posted by Wezil And services are decreasing. Hell of a plan.

Services were decreasing with Harris. As in wait times and such. He downloaded things like ambulance service which cost my muncipality big time and they are struggling to pay for it. They don't have the tax base to pay for it.

Those services that McGoofy cut. I know at least with my place of work I think they added a certain amount of those on to my medical package. I will have to check that out and see if there is an added cost. But I know not all have that opportunity.

	08-04-2005 23:11									#53
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The Right Honourable Joe Clark was Prime Minister once. It didn't last.
Prime Ministers are called Right Honourable. [/QUOTE]

Gotcha.
But he asked why the rightys didn't prosper under Clarks rule.

Still don't think Harpers going to do any better.

	08-04-2005 23:12									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi And you represent the majority if Quebecois federalistes?

No, but the majority of them are not conservative. They certainly aren't going to vote for this incarnation of the Conservatives

That's cold, hard, political reality, Ben.

	08-04-2005 23:12									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi Education and health care are managed provincially. Who's talking minority? 12 years of Liberal rule is enough.

	08-04-2005 23:14									#56
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I suppose you will explain to me where the Conservatives are going to pick up 56 seats?

	08-04-2005 23:20									#57
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Conservatives led by Stronach might have been able to pick up enough seats. Conservatives led by Harper are sitting ducks.

	08-04-2005 23:23									#58
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We'll see. I doubt the opinions of most people here are indicative of the average middle of the road Ontario voter.

	08-04-2005 23:27									#59
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Conservatives led by Stronach might have been able to pick up enough seats.

Seems the only good Conservative for those on the left is a liberal.

quote: Conservatives led by Harper are sitting ducks.

Probably. Not because of Harper and the party but b/c we prefer to elect those that will steal from us.

	08-04-2005 23:28									#60
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NYE - Poll watching time again. Will this stench coming out of Ottawa be enough to move the Ontario voters? I hope so, but based on past behaviour I somehow doubt it.