08-04-2005 23:35									#61
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I am hopeful. Scare mongering can only work for so long.

The Tories seem to have patience which I think is wise. They are prepared to let Gomery finish and go to the polls after the whole steaming mess is in Martin's lap. Also might be a few criminal convictions by then.

Ironically, The Tories were getting stick out here for not trying to defeat the government already. Now some people are bouncing off the walls.

	09-04-2005 00:01									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Tingkai A corrupt Liberal government is still better than an idiotic Conservative government. Besides, the last conservative government was so corrupt that what the Liberals may have done is just child's play in comparison.

Exactly. Both parties are corrupt, but at least the Liberals have been doing it within budget.

	09-04-2005 00:03									#63
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We'll see. I doubt the opinions of most people here are indicative of the average middle of the road Ontario voter.

That's pretty much what I am, although my roots are in western Canada.

	09-04-2005 00:48									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader Exactly. Both parties are corrupt, but at least the Liberals have been doing it within budget.

Yep. I think what some here forget is that Canadians have a general contempt or mistrust for goverments. . The general concensus is that all politicians are crooks and scum regardless of party. That is reality like it or not. Criticise the Canadian people for it all you want for it. It changes nothing. They don't care what you think.

So I don't think the sponsorship bs will have a big effect. It will just be more typical of any ( insert party here) goverment bungling.

The only chance the conservatives have in Ontario is get rid of Harper.

	09-04-2005 03:05									#65
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If no one is able to get a federal majority until 2008, watch out for the next provincial elections in Quebec. Things could get even worse if a moderate conservative gets a majority by converting Ontario without having any seat in Quebec.

	09-04-2005 03:16									#66
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quote: They certainly aren't going to vote for this incarnation of the Conservatives That's cold, hard, political reality, Ben.

They had a considerable uptick in votes in Quebec. If federalists were willing to vote for Reform, than surely more will vote Conservative.

Secondly, why do they need 65 seats for the majority? They already have 100. They need 55, and can pick up most of them, without even touching Quebec.

	09-04-2005 03:22									#67
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi They had a considerable uptick in votes in Quebec.

Uh....actually, you saw a 30% dropoff of the combined support for CA and PC in QC

In 2000: 6.2% CA, 5.6% PC
In 2004: 8.8% CPC

	09-04-2005 03:23									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi They had a considerable uptick in votes in Quebec. If federalists were willing to vote for Reform, than surely more will vote Conservative. Secondly, why do they need 65 seats for the majority? They already have 100. They need 55, and can pick up most of them, without even touching Quebec.

I said 56, sweetheart. AFAIK they have 99 and need 155 for an outright majority

	09-04-2005 03:25									#69
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Are you going to tell me where those 56 are going to come from? That would mean winning Ontario, an unlikely proposition as it stands...

	09-04-2005 03:36									#70
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You don't get it KH,the people in New Brunswick will vote for cuts in unemployment benefits.

	09-04-2005 03:38									#71
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They'll vote for a man who called them whiny *****es...

	09-04-2005 04:18									#72
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quote: Originally posted by KrazyHorse They'll vote for a man who called them whiny *****es...

And tell me how winning or losing NB (or the whole maritimes/atlantic) would make a bit of difference in the outcome of the election?

The Liberals are losing support, especially in Ontario and Quebec... and if you recall inthe last election, Ontario was the only reason they were able to pull off a minority.

In general, the CPC has a strong base thats growing, while the Libs have a weak base thats weakening. That could spell a CPC minority quite easily. And don't forget the 21 Lib ridings in Quebec that are as good as gone. Doesn't matter if the Conservatives get them as long as the liberals don't.

Of course... I'd still bet on another liberal government. People will get "scared" at the last minute and vote liberal again. Just like last time.

	09-04-2005 04:27									#73
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Uh....you really don't understand what 21 ridings in Quebec those are. They're where I grew up. They're not going Bloc and it would take a miracle for them to go conservative.

	09-04-2005 04:33									#74
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ridings like this one

http://www.elections.ca/content.asp...&textonly=false

	09-04-2005 05:25									#75
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster Yep. I think what some here forget is that Canadians have a general contempt or mistrust for goverments. . The general concensus is that all politicians are crooks and scum regardless of party.

Do we? Compared to whom? Brits? Americans? Residents of the People's Republic of China?

	09-04-2005 05:44									#76
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quote: you saw a 30% dropoff of the combined support for CA and PC

But the CA votes under Harper increased under the Conservative party.

As you have so bluntly put it, the PC party is not the Conservative party.

	09-04-2005 05:46									#77
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quote: That would mean winning Ontario,

And your point being?

	09-04-2005 05:48									#78
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My apologies, KH. Your point is well taken.

I read what you wrote, and read it incorrectly.

	09-04-2005 05:50									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Ben Kenobi But the CA votes under Harper increased under the Conservative party. As you have so bluntly put it, the PC party is not the Conservative party.

Uh....you think it's an accomplishment to have retained the CA vote and picked up less than half the PC vote? That means that more than half the PC voters were so disgusted with the new conservatives that they either stayed home or voted for somebody else.

Not exactly an endorsement.

	09-04-2005 05:52									#80
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Anyhow, I got some serious drinking to get through tonight.

Made 200$ at poker today. Plan to drink 50 of that.

Laters, *****es.

	09-04-2005 05:55									#81
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I don't see any distinction, between the PCs of old and the Liberal party of today.

That the real conservatives under Harper increased their support in Quebec, is something to be noted.

After all, there are ridings, where this did not happen, including the one where I voted, where the support of the CA party was not even retained by the Conservatives.

	09-04-2005 10:32									#82
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quote: Originally posted by Garth Vader Exactly. Both parties are corrupt, but at least the Liberals have been doing it within budget.

I remain baffled by assumptions that the Tories would slash budgets while the fed is running a significant surplus.

Are some people getting secret emails that I am not?

	09-04-2005 10:34									#83
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quote: Originally posted by Kontiki That's pretty much what I am, although my roots are in western Canada.

I would be interested to know what your reasons are for thinking that the Tories under Harper are unelectable in large parts of Ontario.

	09-04-2005 10:35									#84
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Do we? Compared to whom? Brits? Americans? Residents of the People's Republic of China? [/QUOTE]

Okay maybe were not that cynical. But I do think there is a general distrust of politicians. Like you siad earlier we expect alot more intergrity from our politicians than those you mentioned.

You know I was reading up on that sponsorship deal and it sounds like its going to get worse. I'm now thinking its possible that the scandal could possibly topple the Liberals.

	09-04-2005 10:38									#85
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither We'll see. I doubt the opinions of most people here are indicative of the average middle of the road Ontario voter.

Well if your talking about me. You don't have to worry about my opinion or vote. My riding will most likely go conservative.

	09-04-2005 10:40									#86
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That's my reading of what is likely to happen. That then leaves the rest of us with a decision. Sit and ***** about a lack of alternatives to the Liberals, or participate so that the NDP and Tories might move closer to the mainstream, be less extreme and therefore more electable.

It is after all the fault of the voters. We are getting the parties that our collective apathy allows.

	09-04-2005 10:42									#87
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quote: Originally posted by notyoueither I would be interested to know what your reasons are for thinking that the Tories under Harper are unelectable in large parts of Ontario.

His connections to the neo-con right. Voter fear of the unknown are two i can think of. But yeah I would love to hear more about the man and why he should or should not govern.

Don't mind me. I'm just one of those stupid ontario voters trying to learn a little more about my countrys politics.

	09-04-2005 10:44									#88
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster Well if your talking about me. You don't have to worry about my opinion or vote. My riding will most likely go conservative.

I wasn't. Many people in this thread couldn't have their opinions effected short of a second coming of Christ (or Marx). You may not be so guilty. Cheers if that is the case.

	09-04-2005 10:49									#89
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quote: Originally posted by Max Webster His connections to the neo-con right. Voter fear of the unknown are two i can think of. But yeah I would love to hear more about the man and why he should or should not govern. Don't mind me. I'm just one of those stupid ontario voters trying to learn a little more about my countrys politics.

What would those connections be?

Is fear of the unknown worth dragging Canada to the level of Mexico of the North by continually returning the same party to power and thereby invitiing the level of arrogance that the Liberals are currently being roasted for?

The crime is corruption. The sin that led to it was arrogance.

	09-04-2005 10:55									#90
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quote: It is after all the fault of the voters. We are getting the parties that our collective apathy allows.

Well I think that may be true. But don't you think its geography that causes these problems. We have pockets of people that have more voter clout than others. One pocket of folks might be happy with their lot in life and the other not.

I betcha the Ontario conservative voters of my riding feel as frustrated as any Albertan when they find out that their vote does not influence a change in Goverment.