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Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 12:34
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Conservatives vs. Judiciary Increase Your PM Length

Hmmm, it seems that traditional conservative blatherings about the evils of an independent judiciary are taking a a turn for the worse:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8-2005Apr8.html

quote:


And the Verdict on Justice Kennedy Is: Guilty

By Dana Milbank
Saturday, April 9, 2005; Page A03

Supreme Court Justice Anthony M. Kennedy is a fairly accomplished jurist, but he might want to get himself a good lawyer -- and perhaps a few more bodyguards.

Conservative leaders meeting in Washington yesterday for a discussion of "Remedies to Judicial Tyranny" decided that Kennedy, a Ronald Reagan appointee, should be impeached, or worse.

Phyllis Schlafly, doyenne of American conservatism, said Kennedy's opinion forbidding capital punishment for juveniles "is a good ground of impeachment." To cheers and applause from those gathered at a downtown Marriott for a conference on "Confronting the Judicial War on Faith," Schlafly said that Kennedy had not met the "good behavior" requirement for office and that "Congress ought to talk about impeachment."

Next, Michael P. Farris, chairman of the Home School Legal Defense Association, said Kennedy "should be the poster boy for impeachment" for citing international norms in his opinions. "If our congressmen and senators do not have the courage to impeach and remove from office Justice Kennedy, they ought to be impeached as well." (can you do that? )

Not to be outdone, lawyer-author Edwin Vieira told the gathering that Kennedy should be impeached because his philosophy, evidenced in his opinion striking down an anti-sodomy statute, "upholds Marxist, Leninist, satanic principles drawn from foreign law."

Ominously, Vieira continued by saying his "bottom line" for dealing with the Supreme Court comes from Joseph Stalin. "He had a slogan, and it worked very well for him, whenever he ran into difficulty: 'no man, no problem,' " Vieira said.

The full Stalin quote, for those who don't recognize it, is "Death solves all problems: no man, no problem." Presumably, Vieira had in mind something less extreme than Stalin did and was not actually advocating violence. But then, these are scary times for the judiciary. An anti-judge furor may help confirm President Bush's judicial nominees, but it also has the potential to turn ugly.

A judge in Atlanta and the husband and mother of a judge in Chicago were murdered in recent weeks. After federal courts spurned a request from Congress to revisit the Terri Schiavo case, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) said that "the time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior." Sen. John Cornyn (R-Tex.) mused about how a perception that judges are making political decisions could lead people to "engage in violence."

"The people who have been speaking out on this, like Tom DeLay and Senator Cornyn, need to be backed up," Schlafly said to applause yesterday. One worker at the event wore a sticker declaring "Hooray for DeLay."

The conference was organized during the height of the Schiavo controversy by a new group, the Judeo-Christian Council for Constitutional Restoration. This was no collection of fringe characters. The two-day program listed two House members; aides to two senators; representatives from the Family Research Council and Concerned Women for America; conservative activists Alan Keyes and Morton C. Blackwell; the lawyer for Terri Schiavo's parents; Alabama's "Ten Commandments" judge, Roy Moore; and DeLay, who canceled to attend the pope's funeral.

The Schlafly session's moderator, Richard Lessner of the American Conservative Union, opened the discussion by decrying a "radical secularist relativist judiciary." It turned more harsh from there.

Schlafly called for passage of a quartet of bills in Congress that would remove courts' power to review religious displays, the Pledge of Allegiance, same-sex marriage and the Boy Scouts. Her speech brought a subtle change in the argument against the courts from emphasizing "activist" judges -- it was, after all, inaction by federal judges that doomed Schiavo -- to "supremacist" judges. "The Constitution is not what the Supreme Court says it is," Schlafly asserted.

Former representative William Dannemeyer (R-Calif.) followed Schlafly, saying the country's "principal problem" is not Iraq or the federal budget but whether "we as a people acknowledge that God exists."

Farris then told the crowd he is "sick and tired of having to lobby people I helped get elected." A better-educated citizenry, he said, would know that "Medicare is a bad idea" and that "Social Security is a horrible idea when run by the government." Farris said he would block judicial power by abolishing the concept of binding judicial precedents, by allowing Congress to vacate court decisions, and by impeaching judges such as Kennedy, who seems to have replaced Justice David H. Souter as the target of conservative ire. "If about 40 of them get impeached, suddenly a lot of these guys would be retiring," he said.

Vieira, a constitutional lawyer who wrote "How to Dethrone the Imperial Judiciary," escalated the charges, saying a Politburo of "five people on the Supreme Court" has a "revolutionary agenda" rooted in foreign law and situational ethics. Vieira, his eyeglasses strapped to his head with black elastic, decried the "primordial illogic" of the courts.

Invoking Stalin, Vieira delivered the "no man, no problem" line twice for emphasis. "This is not a structural problem we have; this is a problem of personnel," he said. "We are in this mess because we have the wrong people as judges."

A court spokeswoman declined to comment.



I don't know about you, but it gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling when conversatives quote Stalin with approval....

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Cornyn and DeLay. Waht a bunch of father-rapers. Part of me hompes that they're re-elected so i cna say that they're not reisidents of my state.

Bosh is offline Bosh
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 12:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Ramo
Cornyn and DeLay. Waht a bunch of father-rapers. Part of me hompes that they're re-elected so i cna say that they're not reisidents of my state.


I thought you lived in Texas.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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Yeah. Keep 'em in DC. Idonw't want them.

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 12:49
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Hmmm, another interesting article. You know something is very wrong when Cheney tells other conservaties they've gone to far:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/07/opinion/07dowd.html?

quote:

OP-ED COLUMNIST
The Passion of the Tom
By MAUREEN DOWD

Published: April 7, 2005

WASHINGTON

Before, Republicans just scared other people. Now, they're starting to scare themselves.

When Dick Cheney tells you you've gone too far, you know you're way over the edge.


Last week, the vice president told The New York Post's editorial board that Tom DeLay should not have jumped ugly on the judges who refused to order that Terri Schiavo's feeding tube be reinserted. He said he would "have problems" with the DeLay plan to get revenge on the judges: "I don't think that's appropriate."

Usually, the White House loves bullies. It embraces John Bolton, nominated as U.N. ambassador, even though, as The Times reports today, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee is reviewing allegations that Mr. Bolton misused intelligence and bullied subordinates to help buttress W.M.D. hokum when he was at State.

But there's some skittishness in the party leadership about the Passion of the Tom, the fiery battle of the born-again Texan to show that he's being persecuted on ethics by a vast left-wing conspiracy. Some Republicans are wondering whether they need to pull a Trent Lott on Tom DeLay before he turns into Newt Gingrich, who led his party to the promised land but then had to be discarded when he became the petulant "definer" and "arouser" of civilization. Do they want Mr. DeLay careering around in Queeg style as they go into 2006?

On Tuesday, Bill Frist joined Mr. Cheney in rejecting Mr. DeLay's call to punish and possibly impeach judges - who are already an endangered species these days, with so much violence leveled against them. "I believe we have a fair and independent judiciary today," Dr. Frist said. "I respect that."

Of course, Dr. Frist and the White House still want to pack the federal courts with right-wing judges, but they don't want it to look as if they're doing it because Tom DeLay told them to or because of unhappiness at the Schiavo case.

No matter how much Democrats may be caviling over the House Republicans' attempts to squelch the Ethics Committee before it goes after Mr. DeLay (the former exterminator who pushed to impeach Bill Clinton), privately they're rooting for Mr. DeLay to thrive. They're hoping to do in 2006 what the Republicans did in 1994, when Mr. Gingrich and his acolytes used Democratic arrogance and ethical lapses to seize the House.

Mr. DeLay is seeking sanctuary in Rome at the pope's funeral, and he will hang on to the bitter end. He got thunderous applause from his House colleagues yesterday morning, showing once more that Mr. DeLay, the House majority leader, has a strong hold on the loyalty of those who have benefited from the largesse of his fat-cat friends and from his shrewdness in keeping them in the majority.

"I think a lot of members think he's taking arrows for all of us," Representative Roy Blunt told the press yesterday, backing up Mr. DeLay's martyr complex.

Mr. DeLay lashed out at the latest article questioning his ethics, calling it "just another seedy attempt by the liberal media to embarrass me." Philip Shenon reported in The Times that Mr. DeLay's wife and daughter have been paid more than half a million dollars since 2001 by the DeLay political action and campaign committees.

Republican family values.

The political action committee said in a statement that the DeLay family members provided valuable services: "Mrs. DeLay provides big picture, long-term strategic guidance and helps with personnel decisions."

Political wives are renowned for injecting themselves into the middle of their husbands' office politics at no charge; a lot of members would pay them to go away.

The Washington Post also splashed Mr. DeLay on the front page with an article about a third DeLay trip under scrutiny: a six-day trip to Moscow in 1997 by Mr. DeLay was "underwritten by business interests lobbying in support of the Russian government, according to four people with firsthand knowledge of the trip arrangements."

All the divisions that President Bush was able to bridge in 2004 are now bursting forth as different wings of his party joust. John Danforth, the former Republican senator and U.N. ambassador, wrote an Op-Ed piece in The Times last week saying that, on issues from stem cell research to Terri Schiavo, his party "has gone so far in adopting a sectarian agenda that it has become the political extension of a religious movement."

When the Rev. Danforth, an Episcopal minister who prayed with Clarence Thomas when he was under attack by Anita Hill, says the party has gone too far, it's way over the edge.

Ramo is offline Ramo
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DeLay's a drag on congressional 06 electoin chacnecs. Roev doen'st want 94 in reverse.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 19:21
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quote:
Phyllis Schlafly, doyenne of American conservatism, said Kennedy's opinion forbidding capital punishment for juveniles "is a good ground of impeachment."
It's grounds for derisively laughing at him and wondering how seriously he really takes Constitutional principles, but I wouldn't go as far as calling for impeachment.

Boris Godunov is offline Boris Godunov
King
Portland, OR
Aug 2001
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 20:06
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How about this one from the nytimes:

quote:

In an interview, Jeff Lungren, a spokesman for Representative F. James Sensenbrenner Jr., Republican of Wisconsin and chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said the panel was likely in some way to take up the issue of how the federal judges handled Ms. Schiavo's case.
But Mr. Lungren said Mr. DeLay had not requested a hearing and the committee had not decided on a course of action. "There does seem to be this misunderstanding out there that our system was created with a completely independent judiciary," he said.


These guys are insane with power and out of control.

Whoha is offline Whoha
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The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 20:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Boshko
Hmmm, it seems that traditional conservative blatherings about the evils of an independent judiciary are taking a a turn for the worse:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8-2005Apr8.html



I don't know about you, but it gives me a nice warm fuzzy feeling when conversatives quote Stalin with approval....


So do you deny that the impeachment process is a legitimate check on judicial power as it was designed?

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 20:33 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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You know we're heading for civil war, right?

Whoha is offline Whoha
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 20:52
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You should be more afraid of the likes of Bush, hes made the calculation that the judges are going to be the sole authority, and on that assumption is attempting to pack the judiciary with as many of his people as possible.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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We knew that.

Starchild is offline Starchild
Emperor
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Jan 1970
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  Old Post 09-04-2005 21:01
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
You know we're heading for civil war, right?


I've got the popcorn, now I just need a good seat.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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Impeaching federal judges. Hmm. Sure looks nice on paper. That is, until someone tries to impeach a judge just because s/he is giving legal rulings that certain right-wing/left-wing extremists don't like. IOW, the spirit is often at war with the intent of the paper.

My understanding is that impeachment is the nuclear weapon of the judiciary, and is supposed to be used only if a judge is incompetent. Last time I checked, giving rulings that the Flavor of the Moment doesn't like isn't grounds for impeachment.

Of course, that won't stop the attempt — at which point it becomes necessary for more level-headed people to step in and restore order. FDR tried to pack the U.S. Supreme Court in the 1930s and was stopped. I pray the same thing happens to those today who are trying to undermine the judiciary. Because if they succeed where FDR didn't, there will be woes to follow.

What's that old axiom? Ah, yes: 'Tis easier to destroy, than to build.

Gatekeeper

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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quote:
But Mr. Lungren said Mr. DeLay had not requested a hearing and the committee had not decided on a course of action. "There does seem to be this misunderstanding out there that our system was created with a completely independent judiciary," he said.


*cries*

mrmitchell is offline mrmitchell
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Even Roosevelt himself couldn't successfully ruin the Supreme Court. It is the one thing in this nation that remains standing among the political madness regardless of which way the river is flowing. We let nuts break the rules one single time and it'll all be over.

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
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The composition of the SC is not set in stone, and has changed many times over the history of the Republic. When the Courts get out of touch with the spirit of the times, it's not necessarily a bad thing to give them a whack.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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  Old Post 10-04-2005 02:47
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Yes it is.

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Especially given what appears to be the spirit of the times.

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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This place is going crazy.

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
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  Old Post 10-04-2005 03:07
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"The Constitution is not what the Supreme Court says it is," Schlafly asserted.

What an idiot!

BTW these are the same brand of losers who spent much of the 50's through 70's claiming Brown VS Board of Education was illegal and unconstitutional. The idiots don't die they just move on to new issues.

Seeker is offline Seeker
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"abolishing the concept of binding judicial precedents, by allowing Congress to vacate court decisions"

Why not just get rid of the whole seperation of powers thing and just have mob rule? Why not just give congress ALL the power?

They'd love that...until a congress was elected opposing them.

These guys are just so politically short-sighted it's laughable.

They honestly think that they will be in power forever, and so they don't need checks and balances.

I'd love it if they push all their mob rule reforms through, and then get a democratic congress in a few decades. Then you'd see them crying and whining about the US constitution soon enough.

BTW, if you were a US soldier or government official who has sworn an oath to 'defend the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic' who would your first loyalties be to, the SC or the congress if you had to choose (i.e. if you were sent to arrest or remove an impeached judge if the SC had ruled his impeachment unconstitutional).

That's what we call a constitutional crisis. Most nations try very hard to AVOID constitutional crises, not create situations that may lead to one.

Agathon is offline Agathon
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See... I told you I was right.

I've consistently said that shooting or burning is the only way to stop these right wing loons from imposing their insane neuroses on the rest of us.

If you ever want to have good sex again without landing in jail, or even read Playboy magazine order your Uzi now.

SnowFire is offline SnowFire
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The composition of the SC is not set in stone, and has changed many times over the history of the Republic. When the Courts get out of touch with the spirit of the times, it's not necessarily a bad thing to give them a whack.


There's a method for that. It's called a constitutional amendment, and it will nicely fix things like the Dred Scot ruling. There shouldn't be any other way.

Pekka is offline Pekka
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Feb 2002
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at the articles. That's how I speak!!! And I'm joking! JEesh.... omg.... please, the hope is getting ever diminishing..

Seeker is offline Seeker
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And now for a totally off-topic but mildly amusing article...

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/10-7-2002-27733.asp

To paraphrase Bill Murray's description of Armageddon?

"Dogs and cats, living together....mass hysteria!"

Kuciwalker is offline Kuciwalker
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Feb 2001
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quote:
Originally posted by Agathon
See... I told you I was right.

I've consistently said that shooting or burning is the only way to stop these right wing loons from imposing their insane neuroses on the rest of us.

If you ever want to have good sex again without landing in jail, or even read Playboy magazine order your Uzi now.


If you guys had your way we wouldn't be able to get Uzis

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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Wouldn't it be easier to move to Canada, where the sex is liberal and no holds barred?

Bosh is offline Bosh
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Taehan Mingook
Jan 1970
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OK if you have no problem with mass-impeachments of judges who don't toe the line how about the bit that Seeker quotes:

quote:
"abolishing the concept of binding judicial precedents, by allowing Congress to vacate court decisions"


That's got to give you the creeps.


How's London treating you these days Seeker?

Seeker is offline Seeker
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it's total blahs-ville. Both of my best friends are ...ugghh..married...or getting that way.

I've been getting a lot of 'gee, we'd love to but ____ wants to ____, so MAYBE LATER'

The Grim Reaper of Cherubs (or whatever you call the wedding-spirit) claims another one this July. It will be my third best manning in a year. At least I'm getting a lot of use out of my suit.

I'm also moving again. It's the usual choice between cheaper vs better. I'm still back at school for the MA and boy does it suck being back at school. I feel so ****ing old with all these fuzz-cheeked 'hee hee I can get DRUNK' types running around.

 
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