12-04-2005 00:23									#31
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT If actual services have been cut as claimed, and then the Repubs not only keep the Presidency but are able to increase their base and power (both nationwide and on a state level), how do you reconcile the quoted belief with actual historical fact?

It's not necessary to increase your base. You can also deplete the base of the other party. If more Democrats lose faith (or the engery to engage in) in politics, the GOP gains.

	12-04-2005 00:42									#32
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wow, Utah is really high up there. What do they spend all their money on.

We always hear Utah schools receieve less funding than our school in Nevada. Yet their students seriously outperform ours (the reason why I don't think funding directly causes better school performance).

but they have such high taxes. They must spend the money on something.

	12-04-2005 04:37									#33
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quote: Originally posted by The Emperor Fabulous The reason its called Taxachusetts is not because of the cost of the taxes, but the fact that there seems to be a tax on everything. But its still nice to know We were the forerunners of the policy in the 1700s of "No Taxation without Representation". Now, we have representation...and boy, do we have taxation.

Wasn't the term "Taxachusetts originally coined by William Loeb, the ultra-conservative newspaper moghul of New Hampshire? New Hampshire didn't have income taxes either, but instead got its income from a super-liqour store near the border with Massachusetts.

	12-04-2005 05:01									#34
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 washington doesnt have income tax, britches

Because if they did no one would live there.

	12-04-2005 05:16									#35
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I seem to recall the 1984 Presidential race featured Reagon's ads denouncing Duhkakis as a "Taxachusetts liberal". Basically it is just another lie constructed by conservatives which isn't backed up bt reality. There might have been some truth to it decades and decades ago but it is no where close to reality now.

	12-04-2005 06:30									#37
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I dunno.

I see plenty of red states on the low side.

And the bluest of the blue is DC.

	12-04-2005 06:56									#38
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#11 Arkansas

The 2003 state budget was $3.2 billion dollars and 67% of it went to education. Total expenditures (which I think includes county, local, etc. that all the taxes in the linked article support) was $12.6B.

	12-04-2005 06:58									#39
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Of the five worst tax states 4 are red and one blue while the lowest tax states are all blue. DOWN WITH THE HIGH TAX REPUBLICANS!

	12-04-2005 07:06									#40
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I seem to recall the 1984 Presidential race featured Reagon's ads denouncing Duhkakis as a "Taxachusetts liberal". Basically it is just another lie constructed by conservatives which isn't backed up bt reality. There might have been some truth to it decades and decades ago but it is no where close to reality now.

The phrase was around long before then. I lived in New Hampshire in 1977. The phrase was bandied about with glee by the locals.

	12-04-2005 08:31									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I seem to recall the 1984 Presidential race featured Reagon's ads denouncing Duhkakis as a "Taxachusetts liberal". Basically it is just another lie constructed by conservatives which isn't backed up bt reality. There might have been some truth to it decades and decades ago but it is no where close to reality now.

Didja happen to notice that 1984 was "decades and decades ago"????

Didja happen to notice that Dukakis ran in 1988 (a mere 3 years away from being "decades and decades ago")

Didja happen to notice that his opponent wasn't Reagan?

	12-04-2005 08:32									#42
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara I read that. No one here was *****ing about taxes. I was talking in general terms.

And we're talking about the quoted piece (without which, this thread wouldn't exist). Pay attention!

	12-04-2005 08:35									#43
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Interesting that Tennessee has an 8.25% sales tax...Not to mention the property taxes and still 3rd from the bottom. i question these figures.

	12-04-2005 09:03									#44
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You bastards also have no income tax .

	12-04-2005 10:12									#45
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT Didja happen to notice that 1984 was "decades and decades ago"???? Didja happen to notice that Dukakis ran in 1988 (a mere 3 years away from being "decades and decades ago") Didja happen to notice that his opponent wasn't Reagan?

Ahh, what ever. You know what I meant even if I got the date wrong and I doubt the state had high taxes then just as it doesn't now.

	12-04-2005 10:13									#46
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui You bastards also have no income tax .

That's a very regressive thing to do; eliminating the income tax and putting up a sky high sales tax. That just hits the poor super hard and lets the rich off the hook.

	12-04-2005 10:14									#47
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But it did. It didn't get the name for no reason, Oerdin.

	12-04-2005 10:15									#48
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I see Republicans label people with false names all the time. Let's see what the tax rates were in 1988 and see if it deserved to be called Taxachusetts or if it was jusr another Republican smear campaign.

	12-04-2005 10:17									#49
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That's the best you can do?

Earliest reference to the word "Taxachusetts" that I can quickly dig up is from 1978 (before Reagan was Pres, btw): An article in Land and Liberty by Edith S. Capon.

Last edited by JohnT on 12-04-2005 at 10:22

	12-04-2005 11:07									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That's a very regressive thing to do; eliminating the income tax and putting up a sky high sales tax. That just hits the poor super hard and lets the rich off the hook.

Eliminate means to get rid of. Tennessee has never had an income tax, though the legislature tried to get one passed. Unfortunetly there was a MASS protest and Tennessee was forced to not pass its income tax plan.

	12-04-2005 11:15									#51
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin I see Republicans label people with false names all the time. Let's see what the tax rates were in 1988 and see if it deserved to be called Taxachusetts or if it was jusr another Republican smear campaign.

Another 10 minutes of research and the answers are revealed. Aren't you glad that I'm here to do your homework tonight?

State and Local Tax Burdens by Rank, Year, % of income taxes (Massachusetts):

Year - Rank - %
1970 - 18 - 10.8%
1971 - 9 - 11.0%
1972 - 5 - 11.8%
1973 - 4 - 11.8%
1974 - 3 - 12.0%
1975 - 3 - 12.1%
1976 - 3 - 12.3%
1977 - 3 - 12.4%
1978 - 2 - 12.1% (MA finally beat Alaska, but still falls behind NY (13.4%))
1979 - 2 - 11.5%

By the time Dukakis rolled into the nomination, MA had fallen to 31st place, partly because of a overall reduction in the burden (to 9.7% of income) partly because so many states had burdens greater than 9.7%.

So it's easy to see what happened: MA, never a low-tax state, raised the tax burden an additional 20% and some political wag coined the phrase. It was already in use by 1978, of course.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/statelocal.html

	12-04-2005 13:13									#52
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1 Maine 13.00%
2 New York 12.00%
3 Hawaii 11.50%
4 Rhode Island 11.40%
5 Wisconsin 11.40%
6 Vermont 11.10%
7 Ohio 11.00%
8 Nebraska 10.90%
9 Utah 10.90%
10 Minnesota 10.70%
11 Arkansas 10.50%
12 Connecticut 10.50%
13 West Virginia 10.50%
14 New Jersey 10.40%
15 Kansas 10.40% ******* Repukes run this state except for the guv's office, these numbers show there just ain't a difference between the 2 parties.

16 Louisiana 10.40%
17 Maryland 10.30%
18 Indiana 10.30%
19 Kentucky 10.30%
20 California 10.30%
21 Arizona 10.20%
22 Michigan 10.10%
23 Wyoming 10.10%
24 Washington 10.00%
25 Iowa 10.00%
26 Mississippi 10.00%
27 Idaho 10.00%
28 North Carolina 10.00%
29 New Mexico 9.90%
30 Illinois 9.80%
31 Georgia 9.80%
32 Massachusetts 9.80%
33 South Carolina 9.70%
34 Virginia 9.70%
35 Pennsylvania 9.70%
36 Oregon 9.60%
37 Colorado 9.50%
38 Nevada 9.50%
39 Montana 9.50%
40 Oklahoma 9.40%
41 Missouri 9.40%
42 North Dakota 9.40%
43 Texas 9.30%
44 Florida 9.20%
45 South Dakota 8.80%
46 Alabama 8.70%
47 Tennessee 8.30%
48 Delaware 8.00%
49 New Hampshire 7.40%
50 Alaska 6.40%

District of Columbia 12.20%

Source: Tax Foundation, 2005

	12-04-2005 13:52									#53
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I have to agree with Berzerker the main difference isn't the tax issue. Instead the main difference is one party is inclined to help wealthy people and the other party is inclined to help common citizens. Neither can really be trusted but one one would benifet more people then the other. In any event we should be trying to keep Congress controlled by one party and the Presedentcy controlled by the other to prevent the worst abuses.

	12-04-2005 13:54									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Odin What I find disturbing is that people whine and ***** about thier income taxes, but don't whine about sales taxes and other flat taxes which often affect the people with less money more. Ignorance or right-wing brainwashing?

Neither. Income taxes cost me more than sales or property taxes, and force almost every entity to deal with onerous paperwork requirements as well as forcing individuals to reveal their personal financial information to the government. Additionally, wealthy scumbags can avoid paying most if not all of their income taxes through various schemes.

A well-designed sales tax exempts necessities like food, medicine and shelter so that poor people aren't unfairly burdened with taxes. And no paperwork wasting millions of man hours every year, or invasion of privacy either.

	12-04-2005 13:58									#55
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Join the army and go to Iraq. You won't have to pay income taxes. Problem solved.

	12-04-2005 14:09									#56
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These figures are interesting, but fall far short of telling the complete story. Two large factors which can skew the reslults a bit are how much the average person in the state earns and how dense the population is (insert red / blue joke as appropriate). Wealthy states can get away with lower tax rates and still generate as much or more as poorer states with higher rates. Higher population densities mean higher efficiencies of scale, resulting in more bang for your tax dollar. Western states often have to support a lot of road miles per capita for instance, while suffering from lower utilization rates for schools etc.

	12-04-2005 14:10									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Join the army and go to Iraq. You won't have to pay income taxes. Problem solved.

When they raise the maximum age to 44 for enlistment I'll consider it.

	12-04-2005 16:13									#58
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Would be very interesting to see the formula they used to see if we could calculate how different countries compare.

	12-04-2005 16:33									#59
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara It's funny how people get all up in arms about income tax, but ignore all the rest.

Those people have income, commie.

	12-04-2005 16:43									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Of the five worst tax states 4 are red and one blue while the lowest tax states are all blue. DOWN WITH THE HIGH TAX REPUBLICANS!

Did you get some TJ weed or something? Look at the article:

High tax:
Maine 13.00% - BLUE
New York 12.00% -BLUE
Hawaii 11.50% - BLUE
Rhode Island 11.40% - BLUE
Wisconsin 11.40% - BLUE

Bottom 5 tax heavy states:

Alaska 6.40% -RED
New Hampshire 7.40% -BLUE
Delaware 8.00% - BLUE
Tennessee 8.30% - RED
Alabama 8.70% - RED