08-06-2005 08:14									#31
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quote: Great Culture Kings Beta and Kloreep of Babylon In this increasingly harsh world of ours, friends are a true asset to us all. As you know, we have been painstakingly forging a friendship between our respective mighty civilisations. We believe the time has come for us to create stronger bonds of trade and support. Our suggestion is that Babylon alllies with the Desolation Row and at least one other civilisation (either Angh Morpork or Lost Boys), to co-operate on research while placing a tech-trade embargo on the other civilisations. In this way we are able to control the tech pace and counter the mentality that has prevailed in the technology race to date - ie, that all techs are whored around resulting in all civs benig roughly equal in technology. In addition, we propose a strict Non-Aggression Pact between the civs in this alliance (which goes without saying, really). This NAP could possibly be extended with mutual agreement to actual military alliances in times of need. You may perhaps be concerned that this may draw you into an unwanted war due to our long-held mistrust of the Euphoricans, however we have no intention of asking you for military assistance in the near future. The Council of Desolators believe that Babylon, due to its geographic location and potential research ability (ie, matching our cheap Libraries), is a natural ally to us. We have come to this conclusion after long thought and discussion, and do not make this offer of friendship lightly. We would appreciate your serious consideration of this proposal and a somewhat prompt response, since diplomacy in this world moves at an alarming pace. Aqualung the Desolator

	08-06-2005 08:20									#32
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I just want to say I love this part.

quote: As you know, we have been painstakingly forging a friendship between our respective mighty civilisations.

This is why you said just recently that you were packing up your diplomatic playing pouch and going home.

Anyway, this is quite a change in tone. I'm not sure why, perhaps the simple fact of our response restored their confidence.

I'm not sure how we should respond.

Delay might not be fishy, but delaying messages probably would be. I suppose we should milk silence for the length we can, but what to do once it becomes high time we responded?

	08-06-2005 08:52									#33
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Can we ask for a gift (tech or gold) so that we might enter into this NAP?

Long live TNA!

	08-06-2005 09:38									#34
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We'd have to break DR's NAP.

I don't know about you, but I don't think it's very nice to awaken people when you've said you'll let them sleep.

Seriously, though, is the team willing to enter in to an agreement that we'll break? If so, then I'll be quiet. But I haven't seen many people way in yet, so I continue to advise caution on entering in to treaties with DR.

	08-06-2005 11:46									#35
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Breaking treaties in Multiplayer

As I have very bad experiences in that regard, I have to advise strongly against committing to a NAP we´re going to break. The only way around would be to enter the NAP with DR and only fight the other enemies of the TNA. But that´s kind of tricky and might upset our allies AND our foes...

	08-06-2005 15:59									#36
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Inform the TNA. With their consent, supply them with gold, and do not send horsemen across the world to fight some war we don't gain from. Keep DR on a friendly basis, and gain info from them.

	08-06-2005 19:29									#37
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Micha, Kloreep,
I stand corrected. I do not normally play multiplayer and was unaware of the etiquette. I will no longer suggest backstabbing as it is in poor form.

Forgive me.

	08-06-2005 19:31									#38
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With that said.

We have committed to the TNA. We committed to sending troops. Delay with DR as long as possible. See what trades we can make with DR to share with TNA. No NAP with DR or other enemies of the TNA.

	08-06-2005 22:28									#39
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Backstabbing is not considered out-of-game unethical or anything. It is an option. It's just, how could we expect anyone in this game to trust us if we break a treaty like a NAP? Not good long-term policy IMO.

	08-06-2005 23:28									#40
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My thought was that we were being true to TNA while DR would not be around anymore to distrust us anyway.

But I see your point. The Babylonian Nation is better than that.

	09-06-2005 06:57									#41
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quote: Still awaiting your response to our proposal Another suggestion - as the only 2 Scientific civilisations we are in a perfect position to co-operate on trade. Think of the mutual tech lead we could establish if we both managed to get different techs upon reaching the Middle Ages and shared them between us! By the way, have you or aree you currently researching Literature?

	09-06-2005 07:58									#42
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They really want us.

I hope we made the right choice.

	10-06-2005 23:29									#43
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Where are we with DR? I know that d/t the TNA, DR is the enemy. We haven't attacked yet. I'm not saying we take the NAP, but is there any way Babylon and the TNA can benefit from the techs or gold that DR might have?

Did DR send the ever quiet LB our way?

Whatever we do, we need to be careful. I think the TNA will come to light soon. If there is anything to be gained from our relationship with DR we must gain it now.

	13-06-2005 22:43									#44
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I like Beta's idea of trading Monarchy to DR. TNA has been notified and BOH approves. Are we going to do this?

Is DR even talking to us anymore?

	15-06-2005 14:03									#45
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Did this happen?

	15-06-2005 22:28									#46
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From Aqua in the AM last night.

quote: Culture Kings Any update on whether youo're interested in a tech-trading or indeed, any other form of alliance or co-operation?

Beta's reply:

quote: Yes we are. I am out of town at a conference for the next 3 days. Can we get together this weekend to chat?

	15-06-2005 22:38									#47
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Several turns will pass. Should Kloreep handle the chat? Should someone else?

	16-06-2005 09:54									#48
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Yes, Kloreep should.

	17-06-2005 20:56									#49
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I liked Beta's idea of trading Monarchy, wait for anarchy, then attack. Where are we on this?

	18-06-2005 20:55									#50
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quote: Hello Babylon.. We desolators have been wanting to talk, are any of your team on MSN today? I am on under this email address

	19-06-2005 00:47									#51
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Let us hope to Inanna that things went well.

	24-06-2005 03:41									#52
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from Aqua...

(the silent route won't work for much longer - and we have a decision coming up - to proceed or not to proceed. See the discussion that Klo has started on the TNA)

quote: Culture Kings Beta and Kloreep You have been silent for many moons, and have not responded to our diplomatic efforts despite your assurances that you wish to coopoerate with the Desolation Row. Should we interpret this as meaning you have teamed up with the unholy alliance of the Horde and Euphoricans? We certainly hope not, and of course if you had done so you would have announced the alliance as required. In any case, we would very much like to hear your views on the world, and possible cooperation in many things. We would also like to respectfully request that you keep your military units away from our lands, since our Generals are engaged in complex military strategies against the Horde/Euphorican armies who are acting in concert, and I cannot predict their actions should we suddenly see unannounced Babylonians on our border for no apparent reason Looking forward to your reply In friendship Aqualung the Desolator

	24-06-2005 16:29									#53
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Hehe, he definately smells the turkey

	25-06-2005 23:44									#54
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quote: Should your horseman approach further, we would have to consider how best to destroy it.

	26-06-2005 22:18									#55
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Have we responded and how do we judge the strength of TNA?

	27-06-2005 08:58									#56
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Ok - one way or the other we should get back to DR. If we go to war - we should still make a formal declaration of war.

It all depends on our collective views in skro's discussion thread. Please check it out.

	27-06-2005 14:00									#57
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Also we need to announce our alliance soon, and we need to make it look as if we just recently formed it... Then we need to find a plausible explaination how we managed to warp our horses to their border in the turn after agreeing to an alliance...

	27-06-2005 14:36									#58
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Why announce it? Not a game rule.

	27-06-2005 15:18									#59
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It is a game rule... no? They said it, and someone from our team also said it.

	27-06-2005 18:28									#60
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Not a game rule as far as I know. Simply a matter of etiquette.