24-04-2005 02:01									#181
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Sandman I'll bet that internal French opposition to lifting the ban has hardly been covered in the American media.

Allow me to quote an exchange from a previous thread:

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor (not an American) quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc I do have to ask though how much serious opposition is there to removing the embargo within the EU? A very quick scan on the French and German press tells me that the matter is considered as nothing more than a bone of contention between the US and EU. The very act of lifting the embargo is mentioned nowhere in the media I scanned. I guess some peace associations will mount an ad-hoc opposition, but as with most diplomatic matters, the parties and the population in general won't be involved.

	24-04-2005 02:02									#182
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Ned Ditto, Iraq, and manh of the the anti-tank missles used by the enemy. French.

I hadn't noticed the Iraqi military had any efficiency against you Edit: However, it's pretty nice from you to say. It means our technology PWNs the Germans' and the Russians' (and most certainly other suppliers that haven't been mentioned, as they were in the US coalition)

	24-04-2005 02:03									#183
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor I hadn't noticed the Iraqi military had any efficiency against you

Which French stereotype do you want as a response?

	24-04-2005 02:06									#184
	Put an end to popups!

Spiffor, French weapons time and again have proven themselves to be first rate.

That is a problem for us as they seem to find their way into our enemies' hands.

	24-04-2005 02:17									#185
	Put an end to popups!

Love that aircraft carrier Spif

	24-04-2005 02:19									#186
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

"That is a problem for us as they seem to find their way into our enemies' hands."

Remember when, >>>during the Falklands war<<< the French wanted to sell Argentina more exocets to replace those used to sink British ships?

Man oh man, what a government.

	24-04-2005 02:24									#187
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

France

	24-04-2005 02:25									#188
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Remember when, >>>during the Falklands war<<< the French wanted to sell Argentina more exocets to replace those used to sink British ships?

We prefer killing Brits by proxy, while you guys kill them directly.

Once again, we see the difference between us subtle diplomats and them uncouth cowboys

	24-04-2005 02:25									#189
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.html

That number is a little loose with the terminology "gave to Israel." I concede that the cost to the US is rather large, even though I don't agree with parts of the list.

	24-04-2005 02:27									#190
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: There is no superior technology at work in Irak

Perhaps you think Irak and Iraq are differnet places?

	24-04-2005 02:27									#191
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

DD:
WRT that quote, things have changed in Germany. It appears that Schröder's majority (SPD+greens) now oppose the lift. Actually, the only article in Le Monde that deals with domestic opposition, deals with the one happening in Germany

Edit: I also read one line that mentions that the European Parliament opposes the lift as well. I'll try to find articles of the period, to see what kind of spotlight this news received. Edit edit: Le Monde and L'Humanité haven't written any specific article on the issue. The important EP news, that week, was Barroso' confirmation.

Last edited by Spiffor on 24-04-2005 at 02:40

	24-04-2005 02:28									#192
	Increase Your PM Length

What parts would you disagree with and we can come up with a more reasonable number.

	24-04-2005 02:31									#193
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Originally posted by Spiffor DD: WRT that quote, things have changed in Germany. It appears that Schröder's majority (SPD+greens) now oppose the lift. Actually, the only article in Le Monde that deals with domestic opposition, deals with the one happening in Germany

I'm still curious where this internal French opposition thinks the American media should be covering is when even French papers can not find it.

	24-04-2005 02:31									#194
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Regarding ITER, you should say that Japan is a closer ally than the EU which is a member of the association, not France.

If it's to be built in France, it will be mostly with French money. It's a no-cost position for the US. If it were to be built in the UK, we would be having second thoughts. Besides, while we would like to treat the EU as a single entity, at the present time this is impossible. Maybe once we continue to pack the EU with countries favorable to the US and unfavorable to France, it will all be cool.

	24-04-2005 02:31									#195
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

In Germany, all parties currently oppose the lifting, though Schröder is in favour of it. The parliament has no say on that matter, so Schröder could very well push for the lifting. Anyway, I think the embargo will be lifted within two or three years.

However, that doesn't necessarily mean that we will actually sell stuff to China. At least in Germany, we have relatively strict rules for weapon exports. For example, not long ago, the government stopped the export of Leopard tanks to Turkey because of the fear, the Turks could use them against the Kurds. I think the embargo is overrated and I'm fine with lifting it.

	24-04-2005 02:31									#196
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

"We prefer killing Brits by proxy, while you guys kill them directly.

Once again, we see the difference between us subtle diplomats and them uncouth cowboys "

	24-04-2005 02:37									#197
	Tired of ads?

Well, about a trillion is from the costs of oil. since the arab oil embargo. Of course, the US didn't have to help Israel. ( and infact, the weapons that were sent then, didn't ever reach the battlefield). But I am sure that nuclear retaliation against overwhelming conventional advantage would be more beneficial to the US - nuclear wars usually are great for the economy, and would finally solidify america's independence from the evil Israeli lobby.

The "requirement to use US jobs" argument is bogus - period. Israel has to contract all of the things it buys with US money from US military contractors, and companies. That's why we have silly "made in the US" conserve jars, and lots of other stuff on our bases. Same goes with the planes, etc.

I wish our government would stop being the recipient of this 'aid' of yours. It's like welfare, only bad.

	24-04-2005 02:45									#198
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Ned BTW, given everything, I see a new balance of major powers lining up as this: 1. US-Britain-Japan-India 2. France-Germany-Russia-China Anyone disagree?

I do.

France's diplomacy will be likely very different once Chirac leaves power. He doesn't seem to have any heir whith the same ideas, that has also reasonable chance of success. The fashionable right winger of the time loves the US. The mainstream left is very pragmatic.

If anything, I think that France, in the long run, will try to push for Europe to become a bloc that's rather cooperative with the Yanks, but that sternly defends its interests.

	24-04-2005 02:48									#199
	Full PM-box? Change here!

...the way it should be, really.

	24-04-2005 02:57									#200
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

Spif, speaking of French interests, how does French wealth compare to German? In the case of a political union in europe, wouldn't France tend to be swallowed by German economic power? I guess what I'm saying is, when it comes to France, Germany swallows, right? At least until the Union?

Typical marriage imo.

	24-04-2005 03:00									#201
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I don't think that Germany will swallow, in this case.

there are too many other countries. Of course, the German regions will be very strong, economically, in the future superstate, but there are always these regions, and their populations are often underrepresented ( See the case of the US)

	24-04-2005 03:02									#202
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

There's no difference in GDP per capita, but the German economy is about 1/4 larger. That said, the German population will dramatically decline while the French population is rather set to grow in the next decades. France may even have a higher population than Germany in 3 or 4 decades. Germany certainly isn't a thread to France anymore.

	24-04-2005 03:04									#203
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Lancer "That is a problem for us as they seem to find their way into our enemies' hands." Remember when, >>>during the Falklands war<<< the French wanted to sell Argentina more exocets to replace those used to sink British ships?

You see! They were willing to help the Brits!

	24-04-2005 03:08									#204
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

What Kronic said. Besides, the dynamics of the Franco-German partnership has shown that the German government is eager to leave France mucho leeway (i.e., completely agreeing with France on plenty of matters, like the lift of the embargo) as long as France completely agrees with germany on the matters that are dear to it.

For example, the reason why Chirac didn't lower the sales tax on restaurants is because the Germans have adamantly opposed it. My guess for the German position is that such a measure would go against the fiscal harmonization of Europe.

	24-04-2005 03:12									#205
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Spif, it's nice when government types find such a good, harmonious reason not to lower taxes, isn't it? This could be the basis of a new Berlin-Paris axi...umm, bipolar alliance.

	24-04-2005 03:15									#206
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

"Germany certainly isn't a thread to France anymore."

That figures. I mean the US at this point would send the Germans a nice 'go in and win' card if they invaded today, but nooo...

The Germans have no sense of timing.

	24-04-2005 03:19									#207
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Lancer Spif, it's nice when government types find such a good, harmonious reason not to lower taxes, isn't it? This could be the basis of a new Berlin-Paris axi...umm, bipolar alliance.

Actually, the Berlin-Paris axis is an old thing in Europe, as it was instrumental in the take off of the EEC/EU. It became dormant since the 80ies, and has been ressurected quite loudly in early 2003...


... when France and Germany unilaterally announced that Europe (read: they) would oppose an American attack in Iraq.

	24-04-2005 04:05									#208
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by DanS Yes, to all of your questions. On the other hand, US consumers would be paying more for their goodies, so it's not so clearly a double positive for the US.

Maybe instead of spending the money, they'd save it instead, thus benefitting America in the long run. Or shift it toward other manufacturers, U.S.-based or not.

Gatekeeper

	24-04-2005 04:07									#209
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: Originally posted by DAVOUT China is not really certain of its economic strength; Chinese ministers always state that : - they have to be cautious because the banking system is weak, with enormous bad debts from nationalized companies, there are a lot of old factories which are not competitive, and there is a big unemployment; - for these reasons they never contemplate the de-linking, but a progressive revaluation of the yuan. The effects of a progressive revaluation would hardly be visible on the US economy.

I imagine currency issues aren't in the domain of the WTO. If so, is there anything a nation can do if it doesn't want another linking to its currency?

Gatekeeper

	24-04-2005 04:12									#210
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither A Frenchman is advocating a totalitarian state be left alone to 'annex' a democratic neighbour, and we should all stay our hands and stand down? Colour me shocked, and stunned by deja vu.

So you disagree with the principle of "anti-secession" laws?