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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:36
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The US cannot depend upon France, (who showed no gratitude for the US WW1 and WW2 efforts) Germany and old europe, except for Denmark. This may be because they didn't believe in the WMD arguement, according to Pekka. 
The US Army can't be stopped by an army equiped with old soviet stuff, no matter how large. Those expecting 20,000 casualties fighting the Iraqi army were fear mongering for political reasons.
The CIA needs people on the ground to develope credible intel. The major reason for going to war in the first place was bogus, and the resulting backlash hurt the presidency of GWB, though not badly as he was re-elected, and the credibility of the US.
Overseeing of the treatment of POWs is absolutely essential.
The US did not fabricate evidence of WMD. Those that said they would have no clue about what a democracy is or isn't capable of.
The US failed to be ready for the unexpected. The president didn't expect the post war resistance to be as strong and so wasn't ready, a major failing.
The left tends to demonize those with whom it disagrees. -Inspired  by Diss's post.
The vast majority of Arabs, like other people in this world, do want to have a democracy and do not want to be ruled by ruthless dictators.-Inspired by Ned's post
What else?
Last edited by Lancer on 24-04-2005 at 01:36
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BlackCat
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quote:
Originally posted by Lancer
The US cannot depend upon France, Germany and old europe.
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Can't you reduce that to those who actually is dragging thier feet ?
500 danish soldiers may not be many, but they actually do a pretty good job, and there are political consensus that they stay.
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VetLegion
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Danes also sent a submarine.
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Lancer
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Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:36
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Ned, they'll all say that we freed France for our own selfish reasons, but I'll put it up there.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:36
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No, I really think you are living in Fox World. You are not living in Europe at least. In here, the Powell thing MADE IT WORSE. In here, it did. What it was, a crappy powerpoint presentation with some flurry images and what not. It was horrible. And Powell was very uncomfortable.
I'm talking about the Powell thing only. There were many people who believed there MIGHT be WMDs. What happened in the UN made it worse. Hey, ask any Euro if you don't believe me.
And let's nto forget, I supported the campagn, and I still do support it, except that I would hope it would go to the right direction, meaning more troops, WAY more troops, to make it realistic operation.
People who say French this Germans that, uh oh touchy feely, hey let's get back into the real world. Majority, GREAT majority of Europeans did not believe in the opreation, it was a bad deal to begin with, so there was a hard sell. Which made it worse in here. Allies, foes, hey, we live in eurocentric world of view in here. So we see things a little differently. It's not about values in here. **** forget that. Saddam could hurt us what ever, it was not a thing that people believed in here. While you were twitching and thinking these dudes will hurt you, and we're not helping you, well we saw it as you guys are going nuts again over something that is totally laughable. Which it turned out to be, a fact.
Let's face it. Majority of Euros were right. That's the way it is. Saddam is gone, yaadayaada. No, that was not the discussion. It was about why mayn Euro countries didn't want to engage. Because the reasons were.. bogus. You could mobilize a country on those reasons, but you can't mobilize MANY countries over those reasons, while the majority opposes (because they don't believe in it, Powell making it even worse in the UN) etc etc.
And yes. I supported the action. So I belong to the minority.
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Pekka
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em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:36
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Ted, Nah, I'm just overwhelmed by the argument where France and Germany sucks, after the fact that the WMDs weren't there, and the reasons for war were bogus. That's a paradox right there! ****, they were right, they didn't join, thus they are bastards.. Uhm?
It's realpolitiks in a way. Allies or not. Don't expect anyone to gear up for you, if you're making a hard sell.
What France did, for going against, now that's a .. that's something you could debate, I mean, why blocking if you could just say we won't go with it and then sit down and shut up. I'm not defending these actions.
ALl I'm saying is, they were right, we were wrong, so why some people are blaming anyone in here!?! Weird.
Besides, how cna a country be a friend and bastard every other day, depending what the news say? Go, travel, make friends, learn about places, and make your own judgement. 'France blocks the new cheese companies from selling their products in Paris'.. BASTARDS! No.. the real answer is, who the hell cares. No one is being unfriendly, except people who are going wild about france evil this germany evil that.
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24-04-2005 00:49
No joke Pekka. Ok, I'll put it up until someone presents a good arguement why it doesn't belong.
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