31-05-2005 05:45									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex You mean LAM, right? That's right, but I've used it already...

No, you're right. There is a weapon abbreviated LAW... Sorry!

Anyway, I got the sword... However, I think I did it "backwards"... I didn't figure out that the red chinese lamp in Maggie's appartment was a door "opener"...

So I fought my way up using a second elevator... And I got Tracer Tong's two transmissions in the wrong order (I guess they're triggered when you reach a certain place in a room for example, and I probably did that in reversed order)...

That goal ("Retrieve the sword and await Tracer Tong's instructions") has not yet been marked as "completed"... Perhaps because the mission continues with more instructions from him?

Anyway, going down into Versatile's labs was great fun! I took a stealth approach as the place was crawling with troops... Got the code to the sword and just run out of there, avoiding fighting as much as possible...

Loved that red entrance with reflections in the marble floor! Amazing graphics considering the game is from 1999 (and even by today's standards)...

Seems, though, as Mr Tong wants to send me right back in...

Carolus

	31-05-2005 08:47									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex No, you're right. There is a weapon abbreviated LAW... Sorry! Anyway, I got the sword... However, I think I did it "backwards"... I didn't figure out that the red chinese lamp in Maggie's appartment was a door "opener"... So I fought my way up using a second elevator... And I got Tracer Tong's two transmissions in the wrong order (I guess they're triggered when you reach a certain place in a room for example, and I probably did that in reversed order)... That goal ("Retrieve the sword and await Tracer Tong's instructions") has not yet been marked as "completed"... Perhaps because the mission continues with more instructions from him? Anyway, going down into Versatile's labs was great fun! I took a stealth approach as the place was crawling with troops... Got the code to the sword and just run out of there, avoiding fighting as much as possible... Loved that red entrance with reflections in the marble floor! Amazing graphics considering the game is from 1999 (and even by today's standards)... Seems, though, as Mr Tong wants to send me right back in... Carolus

How did you get the code to the Versalife Lab without completing the Sword quest?

	31-05-2005 15:18									#93
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I did retrieve the sword, the goal is just not marked as "completed".

Right next to the elevator leading up to Maggie's appartment there is another elevator. With two (four?) tools you can open it. I went up and met a female junkie, which I gave 20 credits and got some info from.

After that I opened a passage with my (regular) sword; it would have needed 2 (?) lock-picks otherwise. Had to kill about 5 black-dressed guards, but after that I continued up some stairs and found the sword.

I brought it back to Max Chen in the Lucky Money Club to convince him that Maggie Show was a traitor. Then I went to see Gordon Quick who let me enter his triad's compound.

I found Tracer Tong in a basement deep down; he turned off my killswitch and IIRC it was he who gave me the code to the elevator.

Somewhere in between those events (before or after the Versalife lab visit) I also went to the temple to cement the truce between the triads.

After that it was too late to go back to the lab, but I'm skipping work today to continue playing!

This is not good...

Carolus

	31-05-2005 15:30									#94
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Oh, when I visited Maggie Show she told me to check the police station. According to her there would be some information that settled the triad wars...

I found no such thing... Only two guards within the station and one on the roof + some equipment and some datacubes, but their content didn't seem useful... What was that all about (and yes, I went into the vault)?

I have the feeling I miss a lot in this game as I don't have the patience to, for example, read every book I find... And the datacubes seem to contain less and less valuable information... One said that Maggie's birthday is the 18th of july... Should I light a candle?

Another datacube told her servant to check two books in her office... I read them, but didn't find anything particularly useful... Unless there were some subtle hints about her loyalties...

I need to replay this game once the curiousness has been laid to rest!

Carolus

	01-06-2005 02:29									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Oh, when I visited Maggie Show she told me to check the police station. According to her there would be some information that settled the triad wars... I found no such thing... Only two guards within the station and one on the roof + some equipment and some datacubes, but their content didn't seem useful... What was that all about (and yes, I went into the vault)?

A trap, of course...

Now I'm starting the Brooklyn Naval Shipyard mission and the goal mentioned in posts above still hangs in there without being "completed"... Oh well...

Carolus

	01-06-2005 06:05									#96
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The shipyard is right after Hong Kong? I thought it came alot later.

For everyone but Carolus

spoiler(highlight to read): Anyone else notice how you can sometimes push buttons you aren't supposed to push with a little strategic manuvering? Example: I was screwing around after doing all three ending, and was in the reactor control room. I crounched and looked at the button that activates it. To my surprise I could press it! What do ya know? You can skip the entire home stretch of the game

	01-06-2005 06:28									#97
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I have a feeling the joke's on me...

Jock landed on the roof of the Hilton Hotel and flew me off to the shipyard... Not much I could do about that (unless I missed something in the mission before).

I sniped off 11 guards from the roof when I got back to NY from Hong Kong. Going down the ladder afterwards, I got a message warning me about all the guards... There was only one left waiting for me...

Carolus

	02-06-2005 06:19									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex No, you're right. There is a weapon abbreviated LAW... Sorry!

You want to be careful with those. They seem to have a very large blast radius and can still kill you even if your target is quite a way away.

quote: After that it was too late to go back to the lab, but I'm skipping work today to continue playing!

Hullo everybody. My name is Carolus Rex and I'm a Deus Ex addict.

I don't think it'll affect the plot overall if you do a few things out of order and don't effectively complete all of the quests but you probably will los out on a few of those 'goal completed' messages and their associated skill point awards.

Btw, a last piece of advice ... Don't rush it!!!!
Going through the first time is a feeling you won't get back. HK was not meant to be played in a day.

quote: The shipyard is right after Hong Kong? I thought it came alot later.

No, it is almost immediately afterwards. Right after the last (brief) visit to Hells kitchen.


'Must be some kinda mech!'

	02-06-2005 16:37									#99
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon You want to be careful with those. They seem to have a very large blast radius and can still kill you even if your target is quite a way away.

Thanks, I will.

quote: Originally posted by ravagon Btw, a last piece of advice ... Don't rush it!!!! Going through the first time is a feeling you won't get back. HK was not meant to be played in a day.

Must... slow... down... Will... slow... down...

Carolus

	05-06-2005 19:32									#100
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I'm at the lower decks now... Have wrecked 4 out of the 5 things you're supposed to wreck (don't remember what they're called )...

Still have to find the last one... According to the image it's supposed to be in the same compartment as the first one I found (near the boilers)... Maybe there's a secret entrance to it somewhere; I'll have to look around more thoroughly as I've only found solid wall so far...

Flying with the fan was cool!

Carolus

	06-06-2005 02:59									#101
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Found it!

"Pipe-walking"...

Carolus

	06-06-2005 04:23									#102
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A hint for next time:
Blow up the easiest one last.

	06-06-2005 06:04									#103
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I'm currently nearing the end of my first play-through of this game.

I had to run from the boiler room, as I blew all five up and only then set the bilge pumps. Wasn't too hard thanks to my trusty Speed Enhancement, though.

	06-06-2005 06:16									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I had to run from the boiler room, as I blew all five up and only then set the bilge pumps. Wasn't too hard thanks to my trusty Speed Enhancement, though.

Doh! I stink at this game when it comes to i) actual combat and ii) remembering to use the augs...

I never use the augmentations (except the standard one, light, via F12)... Always forget that I'm augmented... Getting out of the ship really wasn't too difficult, though... Lots of time... The U-boat in MOHAA was a tad more challenging...

About lousy fighting... After meeting Dowd in his family mausoleum there are a couple of bad guys to take care of (both before and after disrupting the EMP field so Jock can land the chopper)... I die all the time; I truly stink at those particular parts... I think I'm going to enjoy Thief I and II (still untouched in their bargain bin boxes!)...

Skanky,



Carolus

	06-06-2005 08:46									#105
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Combat isn't really an option in Thief at Expert level, so yeah, I imagine you likely will.

I'm not too great at combat either, but playing at Medium difficulty helps. And using the augs. About the only skill I've developed for combat is occassionally remembering the side-strafe keys to dodge.

Though I actually don't use augmentations much either, except for a few well-worn ones like Cloak, Regeneration, and Speed.

The main approach I took to combat was to avoid a fair firefight. Either melee weapons used by sneaking up (or just throw caution to the wind and run up from the front, if you have the Cloak available) or the sniper rifle.

I just finished Deus Ex for the first time. Another day, I'm going to have to go back and try the other endings.

BTW, while you've probably made this decision already, choose the Ballistic Shield over the EMP Shield. I took the EMP and got almost no use out of it; it's probably the #1 bad decision I made in the game. Ballistic would have definitely helped with combat, though at least there's always the armor.

	06-06-2005 09:55									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Getting out of the ship really wasn't too difficult, though... Lots of time...

Lots of time is an understatement, there is no time limit at all

	06-06-2005 10:18									#107
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Combat vs 1 person (or burrick or whatever) is difficult but by no means impossible. The trick is to stay behind them, no matter which way they turn. Multiple human enemies are impossible in a straight fight.

	06-06-2005 10:22									#108
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True enough it's possible, and I have taken on Burricks with a sword now and then. On Expert level, though, it isn't really possible against humans, at least not if you intend to win.

	06-06-2005 11:06									#109
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It is. You just need to get behind them and stay behind them. It is quite difficult but can be done. Then you just hack away at them as they are busy swinging in front of themselves (and towards the side too). If they can't hit you - they can't defeat you.

	06-06-2005 11:13									#110
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Although there is the little technicality that on most levels at Expert level, you fail the mission if anyone dies.

	06-06-2005 17:20									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep The main approach I took to combat was to avoid a fair firefight. Either melee weapons used by sneaking up (or just throw caution to the wind and run up from the front, if you have the Cloak available) or the sniper rifle.

Same here. Riot prod from behind + stealth pistol between the eyes if they're not taken out directly with the prod...

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I just finished Deus Ex for the first time. Another day, I'm going to have to go back and try the other endings.

Multiple endings, eh? Interesting...

quote: Originally posted by Kloreep BTW, while you've probably made this decision already, choose the Ballistic Shield over the EMP Shield.

Well, I hardly use any of the various "suits" available... Seems I need one before going into the catacombs in Paris, though... I also have an aug that hardens my skin to reduce inflicted damage... But I always forget to turn it on (F3) before rushing into a fight...

Carolus

	06-06-2005 17:24									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Nacht Lots of time is an understatement, there is no time limit at all

I think there was an incoming transmission from Tracer Tong saying I had 30 minutes ( ) to get out... I didn't hang around to verify it...

Having the MOHAA U-boat mission in fresh memory, I thought I was in for a similar ride...

Carolus

	06-06-2005 17:34									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Multiple human enemies are impossible in a straight fight.

I've tried some DXMP in between my SP sessions and what you say is very true... (The only experience of shooter MP I had prior to that was some Quake II at work...)

Wow... Complete chaos! Especially in games where augs were allowed...

A lot of stress! Sometimes I didn't even have the time to load up new weapons at the respawning points... I think I'm 15-20 years too old for shooter MP!

Carolus

	07-06-2005 02:23									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Skanky Burns Although there is the little technicality that on most levels at Expert level, you fail the mission if anyone dies.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. I believe there's a level in the Gold version of Thief 1 where you can kill humans. (The level originally didn't have any, so they must have forgotten to add the restriction when they added the humans.) But otherwise I don't remember Expert missions that allow you to.

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Same here. Riot prod from behind + stealth pistol between the eyes if they're not taken out directly with the prod...

BTW, a second hit with the prod usually takes them down, so long as the first one left them paralyzed and shaking.

I often try to take out People in Black with the riot prod. (If you don't know why, you apparently haven't killed one yet, and I'll let you find out yourself. )

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex Well, I hardly use any of the various "suits" available... Seems I need one before going into the catacombs in Paris, though... I also have an aug that hardens my skin to reduce inflicted damage... But I always forget to turn it on (F3) before rushing into a fight...

I was referring to the Aug, and it sounds like you did take the Ballistic protection rather than the EMP protection.

quote: Originally posted by Carolus Rex I've tried some DXMP in between my SP sessions and what you say is very true... (The only experience of shooter MP I had prior to that was some Quake II at work...) Wow... Complete chaos! Especially in games where augs were allowed...

The only MP shooter I've played is a little Halo 2. I get slaughtered.

	07-06-2005 03:13									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep I often try to take out People in Black with the riot prod. (If you don't know why, you apparently haven't killed one yet, and I'll let you find out yourself. )

If you mean the guys who (like Anna Navarra) explode when dying... Yes, I've killed them with guns blazing... After my resurrection after our first encounter... Haven't used the prod on them, though...

Carolus

	07-06-2005 05:56									#116
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quote: Originally posted by Kloreep Yes, that's what I was referring to. I believe there's a level in the Gold version of Thief 1 where you can kill humans. (The level originally didn't have any, so they must have forgotten to add the restriction when they added the humans.) But otherwise I don't remember Expert missions that allow you to.

Off the top of my head, the final mission in Thief 2 allowed you to kill humans. And why not - they were doomed to death after your mission was complete anyway.

	07-06-2005 06:50									#117
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Ah, my experience is currently limited to Thief Gold and the first few missions of Thief 2.

Carolus: If you stun People in Black instead of killing them, they don't explode, they just drop like a normal person. Useful if you want to sneak up on them and don't want to get killed, or if you're fighting them in a narrow space.

	07-06-2005 12:39									#118
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Stop threadjacking!

	07-06-2005 15:12									#119
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quote: Originally posted by DrSpike Stop threadjacking!

Who?

Fellas, no spoilers regarding Thief either... Please?

Carolus

	07-06-2005 18:28									#120
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I agree, there are no Thief spoilers here.