09-05-2005 14:35									#1
	Osama bin Laden's view of the Crusades Inflate your Upload Space

This is what a Brit history called the new movie Kingdom of Heaven.

"But the film has also been dogged in recent months by accusations that it short-shrifts real history. Jonathon Riley-Smith, one of Britain's leading authorities on the Crusades, labeled it "Osama Bin Laden's version of history" and said, "It will fuel the Islamic fundamentalists."

http://www.variety.com/VR1117922320.html

I have seen the film and agree. It is so heavily biased against the West as to be almost pitiable. It is an enormous pile of PC garbage. I left so angry at the stupidity of the film that I was almost beside myself.

Go see it if you must. If you already agree with OBL's view of history, you will thoroughly enjoy the film.

	09-05-2005 15:00									#2
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I didn't see it yet. What's so bad about it? It doesn't end with the Americans dropping by to save the world?

	09-05-2005 15:17									#3
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quote: Originally posted by Combat Ingrid I didn't see it yet. What's so bad about it? It doesn't end with the Americans dropping by to save the world?

I didn't see it either, but that's one odd commment right there.

	09-05-2005 15:33									#4
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I haven't seen the film yet, I am going to do it today, so I won't comment it. But it's true that political accuracy in Europe is in general self-lashing, especially if it has anything to do with Christianity, and especially crusades tend to be depicted from a biased perspective.
I think it's that they were once depicted as something better than they were, and it eventually unleashed wave of criticisement that's depicting them as something worse than they were. Oneday perhaps we'll reach sensible compromise.
Another problem is that some parts of the world do not even try to be obiective, not to mention self-bashing.

	09-05-2005 15:49									#5
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What sort of a man is Ned?!

Attachment: ned.jpg
This has been downloaded 285 time(s).

	09-05-2005 18:28									#6
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quote: Originally posted by Winston I didn't see it either, but that's one odd commment right there.

An attempt at humor that really doesn't make it perhaps?

	09-05-2005 18:38									#7
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Anything that makes Christians look like warmongering cultists must be biased.

	09-05-2005 18:44									#8
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Haven't seen it yet, but I heard it tries to be rather balanced - pc - if you will, but what's bad about it? Such movies often sacrifice historical detail for a certain message, and while some of us may dislike it, it is still legitimate from the artist's POV in a movie that is mainly done for entertainment (and of course to make money).

For accuracy there are history books and stuff....

	09-05-2005 20:23									#9
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the christians loose jerusalem to the arabs in the end ...

that means that those desert rats actually have pwnd western ass...

and that does not go down well with ned

so the movie must be bad, no ?

ps : i saw it, and was pleasantly supprised. i found it rather good

	09-05-2005 20:27									#10
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To a substantial number of people on this forum, Ned, that post you made would be the best possible advertisement to go see the movie.

	09-05-2005 20:33									#11
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While I would like OBL's impaled head as a rotting decoration in my front room, I will go and see it.

I am not afraid to call both 'Conquest-ianity' and 'Isla-mania'
corruptly-controlled war excuses at the time of the crusades.

If it shows the holy dictators of the time in the true light, but
dwells on the bravery of individual warriors, I can live with that.

Too bad for those who want a white-bearded god flying in on a F-15 with Uncle Sam as co-pilot!

	09-05-2005 20:47									#12
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quote: Originally posted by alva What sort of a man is Ned?!

A big fat troll.

	09-05-2005 21:17									#13
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I was under the impression that one of the accuracy problems with Kingdom of Heaven was that it presented the crusaders in a better light than they deserved. But I have yet to see it, so will withhold judgement.

	09-05-2005 21:21									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral I was under the impression that one of the accuracy problems with Kingdom of Heaven was that it presented the crusaders in a better light than they deserved. But I have yet to see it, so will withhold judgement.

	09-05-2005 21:22									#15
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Hm, the biggest massacres were during the first crusade, and the movie starts much later.....

	09-05-2005 22:40									#16
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So we don't get to see the Crusaders slaughtering the Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem?

	09-05-2005 22:42									#17
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It sucks not because of PC garbage, but because it is a bad movie. The plot is uninspired, Orlando Bloom has zero charisma, Ridley Scott's direction is not above average and the best actor in the movie is hidden behind an iron mask. Bleh.

	09-05-2005 22:43									#18
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quote: Originally posted by dannubis the christians loose jerusalem to the arabs in the end ... that means that those desert rats actually have pwnd western ass... and that does not go down well with ned so the movie must be bad, no ? ps : i saw it, and was pleasantly supprised. i found it rather good

No, the problem is that this purports to be an historical movie and it is entirely inaccurate about history as the Brit historian said. Further, the politics are entirely anti-Christian and the move devout the Knight (Templars) the move depraved he appears. Contrast that to the very, very noble and honorable Saracens.

It is just so one sided as to be reiiculous.

Now, why were the Christians fighting after all this setup and a speach by the anti-hero about having nothing to fight for, after all.

	09-05-2005 22:45									#19
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As a general rule I don't go see most of the junk coming out of Hlollywood. I wait until it comes out on DVD or just download it off the net. I do end up buying 5-10 DVDs a year though I only cherry pick the best.

	09-05-2005 22:48									#20
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Wasn't Ned the one who came on here and decried Chicago as a horrendous film that was morally degenerate and awful and an affront to morals etc. etc. etc.?

That's right... Chicago. The musical.

	09-05-2005 23:01									#21
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quote: Originally posted by chegitz guevara So we don't get to see the Crusaders slaughtering the Muslims and Jews in Jerusalem?

There was reference to that, and it was the "purported" reason they were fighting. But given that the movie made no hint that Salah ud Din would do anything of the sort given PC the buildup, no one could reasonably believe that the Christians had any real fear for their lives.

	09-05-2005 23:02									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Wasn't Ned the one who came on here and decried Chicago as a horrendous film that was morally degenerate and awful and an affront to morals etc. etc. etc.? That's right... Chicago. The musical.

You got it. I loathed Chicago.

	09-05-2005 23:04									#23
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But as I said, anyone who views the Crusades as does Osama bin Laden is really going to love this movie. Now who on Apolyton sees the world in the same way as that "great leader?"

I wonder.

	09-05-2005 23:05									#24
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quote: You got it. I loathed Chicago.

I know, and it was based on your completely failing to understand it and what it was saying.

So forgive me for not viewing your opinion of films with much regard.

	09-05-2005 23:11									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Ned No, the problem is that this purports to be an historical movie and it is entirely inaccurate about history as the Brit historian said. Further, the politics are entirely anti-Christian and the move devout the Knight (Templars) the move depraved he appears. Contrast that to the very, very noble and honorable Saracens.

Well, Saladin being a noble guy is a contemporary view of the 12/13th century. Traces of it can be found in European literature of that time.

He made a honourable peace with crusaders of the 3rd crusade (Richard Lionheart), and granted access to Jerusalem (which the crusade failed to regain after it was lost 1187 - IIRC) to Christian pilgrims.

	09-05-2005 23:20									#26
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quote: Originally posted by Admiral I was under the impression that one of the accuracy problems with Kingdom of Heaven was that it presented the crusaders in a better light than they deserved. But I have yet to see it, so will withhold judgement.

Ditto, except that I don't intend to see it. The review in my local paper was quite scathing. The Last Samurai bored me, and I don't have fond memories of Gladiator.

Crusades

	09-05-2005 23:26									#27
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The irony is that Osama subscribes to a fantasy view of classical Islam as rigidly intolerant. His views on Saladin et al. are probably a lot closer to Ned's than Ridley-Scott's (or contemporary Christian Chroniclers, for that matter).

	09-05-2005 23:35									#28
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I know, and it was based on your completely failing to understand it and what it was saying. So forgive me for not viewing your opinion of films with much regard.

Yeah, I also like Phatom of the Opera for the music. You had a different view.

	09-05-2005 23:41									#29
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I've seen it. It's not a great film, but its portrayal of the Crusaders and Muslims was a bit too lenient on the Xians.

The Crusaders were essentially smelly, illiterate barbarians. No wonder the Muslims pitied them.

	09-05-2005 23:41									#30
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Why do you love Osama, Ned?