13-05-2005 22:33									#31
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Shi,

You are right.

We should have reinforced concrete bunkers, razor wire, and overlapping machine gun nests to mow those Mexicans down when they cross the border.

	13-05-2005 22:34									#32
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Send the L.A.P.D.!

	13-05-2005 22:35									#33
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Excellent ad there Shi.

Ted, that's how we deal with our neighbors here in Oregon, why not do it on a national scale?

	13-05-2005 22:37									#34
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Send the L.A.P.D.!

	13-05-2005 22:38									#35
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Why do people advocate for the free movement of Capital and resources but go apeshit over the free movement of labor? What kind of anti-market people are they!?

It is harder to move around the world today in legal terms than in 1500. One of the few areas were we move backwards.

	13-05-2005 22:41									#36
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

So because we don't want one extreme(that fence being the sole protection), we have to go to the exact opposite extreme(your example)? Well, that at least explains how you suddenly jumped from being a jingoist to where you are now.

But even if you support lifting all restrictions against immigrations, you still need better policing of your border then that. Drug gangs, criminals, terrorists, etc. can get into our country with little problem with border protection like that. You also get the problem that people you don't want to be able to leave the country(fugitives) can get out of the country easily with no border protection.

	13-05-2005 22:51									#37
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Have we any evidence that any terrorist has ever entered the country illegally, as opposed to getting a valid visa and then overstaying? Did the 2000 LA bomber enter illegally?

	13-05-2005 22:56									#38
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Have we any evidence that any terrorist has ever entered the country illegally, as opposed to getting a valid visa and then overstaying? Did the 2000 LA bomber enter illegally?

Of course, and Terrorists never deviate from any of their past behaviors, never change their plans of how they operater, and we know that none of the, have entered the country illegal because we perfect documentation of all terrorist activities! Let's just throw the border open!

There is this piece of information:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0322/p01s01-uspo.html

quote: WASHINGTON – Concern is growing at the top levels of government about the US-Mexican border becoming a back door for terrorists entering the United States. While Al Qaeda infiltration across the nation's southern border has been a constant concern since 9/11, US officials cite recent intelligence giving the most definitive evidence yet that terrorists are planning to use it as an entry point - if they haven't already.

	13-05-2005 22:59									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi So because we don't want one extreme(that fence being the sole protection), we have to go to the exact opposite extreme(your example)? Well, that at least explains how you suddenly jumped from being a jingoist to where you are now. But even if you support lifting all restrictions against immigrations, you still need better policing of your border then that. Drug gangs, criminals, terrorists, etc. can get into our country with little problem with border protection like that. You also get the problem that people you don't want to be able to leave the country(fugitives) can get out of the country easily with no border protection.

You do realize the LAX bomber GePap was referring to crossed over into to the US from Canada right?

But your post doesn't really have anything to do with protection from drug gangs, criminals, and terrorists, does it ?

So if you REALLY are concerned about those threats, which you are not, focus on Canada and why the hell don't we have a freaking 12 foot razor wire wall there???

	13-05-2005 23:01									#40
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quote: Ressam, speaking through an Arabic interpreter, said after taking the ferry from Victoria, Canada, to Port Angeles, Washington, "they stopped me. They asked me, 'Where are you going to,' from what I understood. ... They said, 'Open the car,' and started searching. I ran." Ressam said if he not been caught he would have packed the explosives into a suitcase and taken a train to Los Angeles. "It is a very long way and I was afraid of the impact and shock in the car," he said.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/LAW/07...ium.plot.trial/

DEATH TO AMERICA! EH!

	13-05-2005 23:06									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker You do realize the LAX bomber GePap was referring to crossed over into to the US from Canada right? But your post doesn't really have anything to do with protection from drug gangs, criminals, and terrorists, does it ? So if you REALLY are concerned about those threats, which you are not, focus on Canada and why the hell don't we have a freaking 12 foot razor wire wall there???

Where did I say I wasn't in favor of guarding the Canadian border as well?

	13-05-2005 23:08									#42
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You didn't.


But you opened up your post about the Mexican border, and then went into your crap about them dirty Mexicans taking all of our jobs.

Fess up and cut the crap.

	13-05-2005 23:10									#43
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By the looks of things in this thread civil war may be a bigger threat than terrorists before too long.

Anyway, what is a border? If you aren't going to use it to find out who is coming and going, why bother? I'm all for doing whatever it takes to control the border. Also I'm for allowing and documenting alien workers to come in. Make sure they have jobs to go to, don't let in too many that Americans can't find work... Tax them on the money they make. Some kind of system that treats these people like people and gives them decent treatment for their hard work while protecting our borders.

	13-05-2005 23:17									#44
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quote: Originally posted by Japher Send the L.A.P.D.!

Naw, they only shoot unarmed black kids which they've mistaken as gang members. They do however shoot said kids 100 TIMES!!!!

Can we say excessive force?

	13-05-2005 23:23									#45
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"
But you opened up your post about the Mexican border, and then went into your crap about them dirty Mexicans taking all of our jobs."

Because the news article was about the Mexican border, and the topic we were discussing is the Mexican border. What is you point, Ted, because I discuss the topic related to the article, I am a racist? If that's what your implying I am, go ahead and say so.

But as I said, I am not in favor of illegal immigration, because illegal immigrants are often paid sub-standard minimum wage, and do not have the option of reporting any labor abuses or workplaces rights violations against them. That provides unfair competition for native workers who have the right to complain if they aren't being paid minimum wage, or if their employer behaves abusively towards them. I think we should set the immigration level at whatever point we want, and then enforce that.

My point about drugs, criminals and terrorists, is that even if you supported unrestricted immigration, there are still other good reasons why you don't want an unguarder border.

	13-05-2005 23:30									#46
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Any discussion about "lack of controls" on the Mexican border has to involve discussion about the Canadian border.

Otherwise, it's a hypocritical, narrow-minded discussion.

The Mexican border is far more heavily protected than the Canadian border, which if you were really concerned about terrorists, you would pay attention to.

quote: A Department of Homeland Security official, who is not authorized to speak to the press and who asked for anonymity, pointed out that no operational cells of Islamic extremists have been discovered in Mexico -- though he cautioned "It is possible that they are there" -- whereas Canada has historically been regarded as a destination of choice for terrorists. "Intelligence reports indicate that terrorist groups locate in Canada in part because of Canada's liberal visa and asylum laws and the country's proximity to the United States," the then-Inspector General of the Justice Department Michael Bromwich told Congress in 1999. Despite this, it is the border with Mexico that has gotten the lion's share of attention, says Janice Kephart, the Sept. 11 Commission counsel responsible for reviewing immigration and border issues. "It's not that we pay too much attention to the southern border, but we don't pay enough attention to the northern border," she told UPI.

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-brea...90715-2323r.htm

By the way you're not racist, you just buy too much into the crap that is being fed to you without questioning it.

	13-05-2005 23:32									#47
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin Naw, they only shoot unarmed black kids which they've mistaken as gang members. They do however shoot said kids 100 TIMES!!!! Can we say excessive force?

But they only wounded him. It's not excessive force. They are just compensating for their bad aim.

	13-05-2005 23:47									#48
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Have we any evidence that any terrorist has ever entered the country illegally?

Farida Goolam Mohamed Ahmed did over 250 times.

	13-05-2005 23:55									#49
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"Any discussion about "lack of controls" on the Mexican border has to involve discussion about the Canadian border."

No, it doesn't. They are two seperate borders, you can discuss one without discussing the other. If you wanted to start a thread about overall border security you could do so, but I made this thread because there was a specific article of interest relating to the Mexican border.

As I just said, terrorism was another issue I brought up as a reason for guarding the border. The reason we were discussing the Mexican border is because there a recent article suggesting that we aren't properly enforcing the Mexican border- in fact refusing to enforce the law at all to score a political point.

Your own article says:

though he cautioned "It is possible that they are there"

And I as I pointed out earlier there is intelligence we have that they might also use the Mexican border.

"
By the way you're not racist, you just buy too much into the crap that is being fed to you without questioning it."

How so, Ted?

	14-05-2005 00:42									#50
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi An illustration of the problem on the border:

If that freaks you out you should see the Canadian border.

	14-05-2005 00:42									#51
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They cut a 5 foot line in the trees and call it a border...

	14-05-2005 00:45									#52
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quote: Originally posted by GePap Have we any evidence that any terrorist has ever entered the country illegally, as opposed to getting a valid visa and then overstaying? Did the 2000 LA bomber enter illegally?

He didn't enter at all. They nabbed him on the border.

Well, I suppose he entered, in the custody of the US border patrol and half a dozen other agencies...

	14-05-2005 00:52									#53
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"They cut a 5 foot line in the trees and call it a border..."

cleared fields of fire, excellent.

	14-05-2005 00:56									#54
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Ted is correct. A lot of this teethgnashing over the Mexican border is mostly racism and 'you took eer jerbs". It is amazing how much attention is put on the Mexican border, when the Canadian border is far less guarded and easy as Hell to cross even at a checkpoint.

	14-05-2005 01:00									#55
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You guys should just build a 100 ft high wall around the whole country and all live in underground bunkers.

	14-05-2005 01:58									#56
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quote: Originally posted by Ted Striker Any discussion about "lack of controls" on the Mexican border has to involve discussion about the Canadian border. Otherwise, it's a hypocritical, narrow-minded discussion.

That would be true if it wasn't for the fact that 90% of the drugs entering this country come from the US-Mexico border. It seems like that is the region where we'd get the largest return on our efforts.

	14-05-2005 02:11									#57
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If we are talking about terrorists coming in (as I've seen on this thread). More of them are coming in from Canada from past history.

	14-05-2005 02:32									#58
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quote: Originally posted by Shi Huangdi What you guys don't get is that it doesn't matter whether this is actually true or not. If it is believed to be true, then it has the same polticial ramnifications as though it were true even if it isn't. As for the source, howver, it doesn't matter who chooses to report it be it the Washington Times or the New York Times, as the source of the information is listed. More then anonymus calls from Border Patrol agents who claim to have recieved the memo. Anonymus sources aren't great, but for something like this it seems unlikely you would get a non-anonymus source as that would likely cause the source his job. Whether you want to believe the anonymus sources are real or not is up to you.

Federal whistle-blower statutes, not to mention book and interview deals, would derail any impact on the job.

BTW, Al Qaeda is not likely to be humping the Sonoran desert with a bunch of pollos and polleros. That's the joke of the year.

	14-05-2005 02:35									#59
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin That would be true if it wasn't for the fact that 90% of the drugs entering this country come from the US-Mexico border. It seems like that is the region where we'd get the largest return on our efforts.

And a major portion of them come in with the complicity, and sometimes the aid, of the people who are supposedely there to stop them. Do you know how much War on Drugs budget money goes to Federal law enforcement every year? Who in their right minds wants to "win" the war on drugs?

	14-05-2005 04:51									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui If we are talking about terrorists coming in (as I've seen on this thread). More of them are coming in from Canada from past history.

You mean 1-0?