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Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 10:36
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Possible Major Scandal: Border Patrol told to stand down in Arizona Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

http://www.washtimes.com/national/2...22032-5055r.htm

quote:
U.S. Border Patrol agents have been ordered not to arrest illegal aliens along the section of the Arizona border where protesters patrolled last month because an increase in apprehensions there would prove the effectiveness of Minuteman volunteers, The Washington Times has learned.
More than a dozen agents, all of whom asked not to be identified for fear of retribution, said orders relayed by Border Patrol supervisors at the Naco, Ariz., station made it clear that arrests were "not to go up" along the 23-mile section of border that the volunteers monitored to protest illegal immigration.
"It was clear to everyone here what was being said and why," said one veteran agent. "The apprehensions were not to increase after the Minuteman volunteers left. It was as simple as that."
Another agent said the Naco supervisors "were clear in their intention" to keep new arrests to an "absolute minimum" to offset the effect of the Minuteman vigil, adding that patrols along the border have been severely limited.
Border Patrol Chief David V. Aguilar at the agency's Washington headquarters called the accusations "outright wrong," saying that supervisors at the Naco station had not blocked agents from making arrests and that the station's 350 agents were being "supported in carrying out" their duties.
"Border Patrol agents are the front line of defense against terrorism," Chief Aguilar said, adding that the 11,000 agents nationwide are "meeting that challenge, head-on ... as daunting a task as that may sound."
The chief -- a former head of the agency's Tucson sector, which includes the Naco station -- said that with the world watching the Arizona border because of the Minuteman Project, agents in Naco "demonstrated flexibility and resilience in carrying out their critical homeland security duties and responsibilities."
But Rep. Tom Tancredo, Colorado Republican, yesterday said "credible sources" within the Border Patrol also had told him of the decision by Naco supervisors to keep new arrests to a minimum, saying he was angry but not surprised.
"It's like telling a cop to stand by and watch burglars loot a store but don't arrest any of them," he said. "This is another example of decisions being made at the highest levels of the Border Patrol that are hurting morale and helping to rot the agency from within.
"I worry about our efforts in Congress to increase the number of agents," he said. "Based on these kinds of orders, we could spend the equivalent of the national debt and never have secure borders."
Mr. Tancredo, chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, blamed the Bush administration for setting an immigration enforcement tone that suggests to those enforcing the law that he is not serious about secure borders.
"We need to get the president to come to grips with the seriousness of the problem," he said. "I know he doesn't like to utter the words, 'I was wrong,' but if we have another incident like September 11 by people who came through our borders without permission, I hope he doesn't have to say 'I'm sorry.' "
During the Minuteman vigil, Border Patrol supervisors in Arizona discounted their efforts, saying a drop in apprehensions during their protest was because of the Mexican government's deployment of military and police south of the targeted area and a new federal program known as the Arizona Border Control Initiative that brought manpower increases to the state.
The Naco supervisors blamed the volunteers for unnecessarily tripping sensors, disturbing draglines and interfering with the normal operations of the agents. They said that their impact on illegals was "negligible" and that civilians should leave immigration enforcement "to the professionals."
Several field agents credited the volunteers with cutting the flow of illegal aliens in the targeted Naco area, saying the number of apprehended illegals dropped from an average of 500 a day to less than 15 a day.
More than 850 volunteers, in a protest of the lax immigration enforcement policies of the White House and Congress, sought to reduce the flow of illegal aliens along a popular immigration corridor on the Arizona-Mexico border near Naco by reporting illegals to the Border Patrol as they crossed into the United States.
Their goal was to show that increased manpower on the border would effectively deter illegal immigration. Organizers said the protest resulted in Border Patrol arrests of 349 illegal aliens.
Area residents, in a half-page ad in the Sunday edition of the Sierra Vista Herald, told the volunteers: "Thanks for doing what our government won't -- close the border to illegal aliens. It was the quietest month we've had in many years ... You made us feel safe because the border was closed."


That's great. So we are going to just not take care to protect part of border, allowing criminals, drug-runner, or possibly Al-Qaeda agents or whoever else wants to just come in? And all this to make a political point

This has the ability to severely damage Bush among the Republican base, and probably among the public as a whole if this reaches the mainstream press. Telling law enforcement agents to not enforce Federal Law on something like enforcin our border to score a political point would likely be seen as a severe offense.

Immigration is perhaps the biggest area in which Bush's conservative base disagrees with the President. Unless Bush takes strong action to addres the situation, Bush(and maybe the GOP to some extent) stand to lose alot of support among the people who are usually his most fervent backers. I checked FreeRepublic, and the people over there are howling mad over this and some are calling for impeachment if Bush ordered this. Right now this is on drudge report and the Washington Times- it should seep over onto talk-radio and FoxNews as these sort of things usually do. The question would then be is if the mainstream media pick this story up.

GePap is offline GePap
King
of the Big Apple
Nov 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 10:45
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Tired of ads?

Regardless of the validity of the charge, when the Washington Times, Drudge, Talk Radio and Fox News get together, you know you won't ever get anything even close to the truth....

Odin is offline Odin
Prince
Biology Nerd at Minnesota State University Moorhead
Sep 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 10:48
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*jaw falls to the floor*

Imran Siddiqui is offline Imran Siddiqui

Deity
The Potterverse
Jan 1970
time: 00:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 10:49
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Yep... that's true. I want to see the full story when a source like CNN or the NY Times or Wash Post report on it.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 10:58
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What you guys don't get is that it doesn't matter whether this is actually true or not. If it is believed to be true, then it has the same polticial ramnifications as though it were true even if it isn't.

As for the source, howver, it doesn't matter who chooses to report it be it the Washington Times or the New York Times, as the source of the information is listed. More then anonymus calls from Border Patrol agents who claim to have recieved the memo. Anonymus sources aren't great, but for something like this it seems unlikely you would get a non-anonymus source as that would likely cause the source his job. Whether you want to believe the anonymus sources are real or not is up to you.

Gatekeeper is offline Gatekeeper
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United States of America
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time: 23:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:39 Visit Gatekeeper's homepage!
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It's getting harder and harder for journalists to guarantee anonymity to sources, what with a fair number of us getting thrown in jail for not revealing them at the order of various judges.

Anonymous sources are *not* the best way to gather information, but oftentimes they're the first leaks in a dam that eventually shatters. If we can't guarantee them that their names won't show up, they'll clam up. It's as simple as that.

Anyway, Washington Times or not, this story does have potential.

Gatekeeper

MrFun is offline MrFun
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Nov 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:45 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Re: Possible Major Scandal: Border Patrol told to stand down in Arizona Got spare money?

quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi


Immigration is perhaps the biggest area in which Bush's conservative base disagrees with the President. Unless Bush takes strong action to addres the situation, Bush(and maybe the GOP to some extent) stand to lose alot of support among the people who are usually his most fervent backers. I checked FreeRepublic, and the people over there are howling mad over this and some are calling for impeachment if Bush ordered this.



Funny . . . . . .



I thought you always believed that Democrats were the only incompetent politicians, you know, given your obvious bias favoring Republicans.

Dis is offline Dis
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Las Vegas, Nevada
Feb 2000
time: 21:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:46 Visit Dis's homepage!
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who cares about immigration?

I really think people make too big a deal about it. It's not something that affects most people's lives on a daily basis.

I say let everyone in the U.S. Once they run out of jobs, they'll head back.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:47 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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Dissident, try telling that to any population of a local community, where illegal immigrants are working in place of the residents who formerly had such jobs.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:48 Visit Dis's homepage!
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yes, because americans are lining up for landscaping jobs and hotel maids in my city...

mexicans are the only people who want to do landscaping in 115 degree heat.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:50 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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How about factory work? Even Wal-Mart has been accused of hiring illegal immigrants.





The old cliche statement that illegal immigrants only take jobs that American citizens do not want to have, is partly bullsh*t, IMO.

Dis is offline Dis
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Feb 2000
time: 21:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 11:59 Visit Dis's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by MrFun
How about factory work? Even Wal-Mart has been accused of hiring illegal immigrants.





The old cliche statement that illegal immigrants only take jobs that American citizens do not want to have, is partly bullsh*t, IMO.


those walmart jobs were cleaning jobs not hired by walmart directly but by a contracter walmart uses to clean their stores. Most people do not want cleaning jobs. Especially me. I hate cleaning.

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
Emperor
Hawthrone
Mar 1999
time: 06:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 12:53 Visit Atahualpa's homepage!
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border shmorder

Oerdin is offline Oerdin
King
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Sep 2001
time: 21:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 14:57
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NAtive people will do the work but they will demand more money to do the same job. Look at the meat packing industry.

Traianvs is offline Traianvs
Prince
Belgium, land of plenty (corruption)
Jan 2000
time: 06:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 15:34
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"border relations between Canada and Mexico have never been better"....

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 16:00 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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The only, ONLY problem I have with illegal crossings are the security ramifications. Frankly, I don't think the United States has anything to lose by having a Hispanic plurality.

Sikander is offline Sikander
King
Boulder, Colorado, United Snakes of America
Jan 2000
time: 22:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 16:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Lonestar
The only, ONLY problem I have with illegal crossings are the security ramifications. Frankly, I don't think the United States has anything to lose by having a Hispanic plurality.


We have nothing to lose but the ability to say the short i properly.

Lonestar is offline Lonestar
Prince
AECCP Dark Lord of the Sith
Aug 2000
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 16:32 Visit Lonestar's homepage!
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Huh?

Patroklos is offline Patroklos
Warlord
Back home in good ole Norfolk VA
Dec 2001
time: 05:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 16:56
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Uncontrolled illegal immigration from Mexico also ensures that that those that do make it over here, legally or illegally, can be perpetually paid slave wages.

Illegal imigration hurts everything it touches.

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 19:04
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Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Illegal immigrants being paid far below minimum wage greatly hurts the employment prospects and wage potential of native workers. Why would you ever hire a native worker who you must pay minimum wage to when you could hire an illegal immigrant for $3/hour?

But regardless of your position on immigration, not guarding the border is still serious. If you're not guarding it, then anyone or anything could get to the other side.

Last edited by Shi Huangdi on 13-05-2005 at 22:23

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
Emperor
United States of America
Jan 1970
time: 21:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 19:19 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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It's hilarious they want to impeach him for not rounding up brown people harshly enough.

But lying to your own people to go bomb them, well that's just fine and dandy!

YEE HAW

USA!

Whoha is offline Whoha
King
The TOC is supposed to be classified guys...
Dec 2001
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 20:26
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Oh boy, another immigration thread!

who doesn't want multiple drug resistant tuberculosis?
http://www.newswithviews.com/Cosman/madeleine3.htm

Sadly, there will be no quick fix to Social Security, because the average age of the immigrants coming to the US is 3 years older then the population itself,and of course we'll have to pay them SS if Bush gets his way:
http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back505.html

chegitz guevara is offline chegitz guevara
King
Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 20:42 Visit chegitz guevara's homepage!
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Actually, a lot of illegal immigrants make "good" money. In Farmington, NY, they were getting $10/hour.

MrFun is offline MrFun
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 20:56 Visit MrFun's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Ted Striker
It's hilarious they want to impeach him for not rounding up brown people harshly enough.

But lying to your own people to go bomb them, well that's just fine and dandy!

YEE HAW

USA!



pchang is offline pchang
King
Cupertino?
Aug 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 21:36
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The only real scandal here is the perfect illustration that beauracracies tend to value covering their own butts more than doing a good job.

Atahualpa is offline Atahualpa
Emperor
Hawthrone
Mar 1999
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 22:22 Visit Atahualpa's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Illegal immigrants being paid ffare below minimum wage greatly hurts the employment prospects and wage potential of native workers. Why would you ever hire a native worker who you must pay minimum wage to when you could hire an illegal immigrant for $3/hour?


Because even as manager of some company you should obey the law

Lancer is offline Lancer
Emperor
Oregon Coast, USA! or Bohol, Philippines!
Apr 1999
time: 05:20
  Old Post 13-05-2005 22:25
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"The only real scandal here is the perfect illustration that beauracracies tend to value covering their own butts more than doing a good job."

Japher is offline Japher
Prince
Ook! Ook! Ack! Ack! Ack!
Jun 2002
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 22:27
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it's called the "c-ya policy"

Ted Striker is offline Ted Striker
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 22:28 Visit Ted Striker's homepage!
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Slap that ass policy?


Wait wrong thread...

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
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Apr 1999
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  Old Post 13-05-2005 22:31
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An illustration of the problem on the border:

 
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