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curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 11:45 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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The peace with the Allies and Soviets will collapse if Stalin takes a step too far!



The end date is summe 1946 - In my playtests, the world has normally became quite a mess by this point!

I am going to find somewhere to upload the files and then I will post a link...

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 13:08 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Oh, by the way...PLAYTEST TIME!

http://www.evo-games.net/Home/viewt...p?p=12809#12809

Grab a copy and play a game if you have the time.

Feedback notes:
Please take a proper shot as a specific civ and let me know how you fared.
I want to know about any game balance, bugs, unfun situations, how the AI fared against you.
I would prefer if playtesters played through to the bitter end or until they knew victory was assured.
That way we can get the scenario free of any bugs that crop up later...

PS
Here are some tips:
Use terrain, as it will give good defence bonuses.
Also use fighter cover over all armies and navies, totally essential!
Build money improvements and aim for tank/aerial research!

Good luck and give em' hell!

jim panse is offline jim panse
King
Anvilvania
Oct 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 13:56
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RE: Playtest USSR Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

Curt, it looks wonderful

I made some more than serous discoveries when I started playing as the Soviets ... could you take care of these for it would be a rather unhappy start

* Minsk supports too many units, it is running some kind of "deficit" (3 shields too few production) - it would help if you edit the homecities of various units;

* Same problem as above with L'vov (4 shields shortage), Konosha (1 shield, 1 food shortage), Kerch (3 shields shortage), Donetsk (2 shields shortage, Donetsk was a *major* industrial centre too ...), Astrakhan (4 shields shortage), Arkhangelsk (1 shield shortage), Aralsk (1 shield shortage), Vladivostok (2 shields shortage), Sevastopol (8 shields shortage), Odessa (4 shields shortage), Novgorod (2 shields shortage), Murmansk (1 shield shortage)

* Leningrad has 1 food production too few - it suffers starvation from the beginning;

* Voronezh, Smolensk, Kiev have also one 1 shield production;

* I suggest renaming the Soviet Army Purge tech - those purges you seem to referring to have been carried out in the late 1930ies;

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 14:22 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Nice one!

I will repair these problems!
Can you play on and see if anything else crops up, dude!

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 14:32 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Problems fixed, the evil red regime is now back at full efficiency!



Here is a new scn file that has these changes...

Attachment: d3.zip
This has been downloaded 20 time(s).

Eivind IV is offline Eivind IV
Prince
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
Aug 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 18:18 Visit Eivind IV's homepage!
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Some initial observations:

* Having two civ specific artilleries with identical abilities seems like a waste of space. Same with the nebelwerfer and the katyusha. Same with the Sherman and the PzIV. Many other examples as well. Don't you think you could do something with the stats, to justify having seperate units?
* Tripoli lost almost all its units on turn two, due to it couldn't support them. Just as happened with Steph in Russia.
* On turn two I recaptured Ethipopia and all of Italian East Africa. Why are there German troops in that area at all? Did they ever supply the Italians down there? I easily captured Sudan and Egypt from there.
* Why is the diplo screen turned off? It's annoying when the Ruskies violate my border
* The para range is too big methinks. I can easily jump from Berlin and beyond Moscow.
* I sank a naval stack of 11 just off England with a regular wolf pack.
* Also, I think I elminated the entire RAf on turn 1 as there's no resitance on turn 2.
* A single regular sub just sunk an allied Battleship. Don't you think the subs are too strong?
* I've also experienced that battleships never attack. They've cruised around my transporters and destroyers in the red sea for many turns now.
* London is on oil ground
* I've noticed something strange. Two turns in a row has it happened that I rush builded a transporter, only to get a PzIII instead. It seems the game changes my production.
*The infantry unit is good for nothing.
* How'd you make the partisan unit invisable?

All in all, great job, curtmeister!

Broken_Erika is offline Broken_Erika
Prince
shoving your soul into a jar of mayonaise
Oct 2004
time: 00:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 19:39 Visit Broken_Erika's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV

* Why is the diplo screen turned off? It's annoying when the Ruskies violate my border

then kill them

Eivind IV is offline Eivind IV
Prince
History will be kind to me for I intend to write it.
Aug 2002
time: 06:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 20:19 Visit Eivind IV's homepage!
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I can't as we're allied, and the diplo screen is off Not a very big deal though, if it's the only way to dictate the game acording to historical events.

Sarsstock is offline Sarsstock
Prince

Nov 2003
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 20:22
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Curt the game looks just as fantastic as I had imagined it would. I do have one quick question though and this is for anyone with extensive ToT experience. How does one turn off the annoying default ToT units that appear when you select a unit to move? They are really distracting as they take away from Curt's units quite a bit.

Even still, the game looks great and I just love the new events txt. I was pretty surprised to see Japan threatening war with Germany once Washington falls to the Axis invaders. Nice touch .

rmsharpe is offline rmsharpe
Warlord
Minneapolis
Aug 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 20:51
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I believe it is the "animaed units" option that's listed under your graphic options.

rmsharpe is offline rmsharpe
Warlord
Minneapolis
Aug 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 21:07
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It's beautiful, Curt.

My only little bicker is that Minneapolis is on Lake Superior. You could probably shove it over to (52, 58) to help represent it's actual location.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 22:44 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * Having two civ specific artilleries with identical abilities seems like a waste of space. Same with the nebelwerfer and the katyusha. Same with the Sherman and the PzIV. Many other examples as well. Don't you think you could do something with the stats, to justify having seperate units?


Flavour units, my man, flavour units!

I much prefer to give each civ a particular series of units, instead of generics.

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * Tripoli lost almost all its units on turn two, due to it couldn't support them. Just as happened with Steph in Russia.


Well-spotted - That issue will be fixed!

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * On turn two I recaptured Ethipopia and all of Italian East Africa. Why are there German troops in that area at all? Did they ever supply the Italians down there? I easily captured Sudan and Egypt from there.


I might reduce the potency of these units and remove the wehrmacht 'advisor' units...
I am open to suggestion on how to create an Italian invasion in Aug 1940...

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * Why is the diplo screen turned off? It's annoying when the Ruskies violate my border


In this mod, there is only one way to remove trespassing Soviets!

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * The para range is too big methinks. I can easily jump from Berlin and beyond Moscow.


Noted, sir! I will reduce it to 4 squares...

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * I sank a naval stack of 11 just off England with a regular wolf pack.


Subs are being scaled back in power.

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * Also, I think I elminated the entire RAf on turn 1 as there's no resitance on turn 2.


The AI is dumb...I might change the Spit to a defender, rather than the usual suicidal 'air supremacy' mode.

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * A single regular sub just sunk an allied Battleship. Don't you think the subs are too strong?


See earlier answer.

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * I've also experienced that battleships never attack. They've cruised around my transporters and destroyers in the red sea for many turns now.


It might be the submarine flag I gave all the smaller ships is having a strange affect, I will change the naval units back to CIV2 settings and see what happens...

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * London is on oil ground


I might change the 'oil' resource to 'industrial'...

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * I've noticed something strange. Two turns in a row has it happened that I rush builded a transporter, only to get a PzIII instead. It seems the game changes my production.


That is kind of odd...Has anyone else experienced this?

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV *The infantry unit is good for nothing.


That is why it gets replaced in most cases!

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV * How'd you make the partisan unit invisable?


It is a ToT unit flag...

quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV All in all, great job, curtmeister!


My pleasure, and it will become even better thanks to your help!

Broken_Erika is offline Broken_Erika
Prince
shoving your soul into a jar of mayonaise
Oct 2004
time: 00:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 22:54 Visit Broken_Erika's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarsstock

Even still, the game looks great and I just love the new events txt. I was pretty surprised to see Japan threatening war with Germany once Washington falls to the Axis invaders. Nice touch .

that means that the war can drag on even with the allied or axis civs defeated,

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 23:17 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV
I can't as we're allied, and the diplo screen is off Not a very big deal though, if it's the only way to dictate the game acording to historical events.


True, it is impossible to keep the AI from fighting, unless you use events to keep them apart...

But if you wait till the end of 1940, the German OKW might have an answer for you!

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 23:19 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarsstock
Curt the game looks just as fantastic as I had imagined it would. I do have one quick question though and this is for anyone with extensive ToT experience. How does one turn off the annoying default ToT units that appear when you select a unit to move? They are really distracting as they take away from Curt's units quite a bit.

Even still, the game looks great and I just love the new events txt. I was pretty surprised to see Japan threatening war with Germany once Washington falls to the Axis invaders. Nice touch .


If you have a file called 'Resource.spr' in your zip, make sure it is in the main folder!

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 20-05-2005 23:33 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rmsharpe
It's beautiful, Curt.

My only little bicker is that Minneapolis is on Lake Superior. You could probably shove it over to (52, 58) to help represent it's actual location.


It shall be done!

rmsharpe is offline rmsharpe
Warlord
Minneapolis
Aug 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 21-05-2005 08:29
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Boy, and leave it to me to be as blind as a bat. You've also got a typo on Minneapolis. You've got it spelled at "Minneaopolis."

CapTVK is offline CapTVK
King
Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
  Old Post 21-05-2005 17:06 Visit CapTVK's homepage!
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Wow, talk about a huge set of soundfiles

I think I'll have a go as the commonwealth. Is there any particular goal playing as the commonwealth (helping GB) or do you simply head out to were the action is?

typhoon is offline typhoon
Chieftain
of Bollocks
Jan 2003
time: 05:20
  Old Post 21-05-2005 19:03
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Playing as the UK and am in possession of Italy, North Africa, the Balkans, and the northwest corner of France by October 1942. The V2s are a big nuisance. The Germans have mass produced them and are using them on everything in sight. I think they're vastly overpowered, each can sink a battleship or an aircraft with pinpoint accuracy when they historically weren't even guided.

CapTVK is offline CapTVK
King
Voorburg, the Netherlands, Europe
Jan 1970
time: 05:20
  Old Post 21-05-2005 19:50 Visit CapTVK's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by typhoon
Playing as the UK and am in possession of Italy, North Africa, the Balkans, and the northwest corner of France by October 1942. The V2s are a big nuisance. The Germans have mass produced them and are using them on everything in sight. I think they're vastly overpowered, each can sink a battleship or an aircraft with pinpoint accuracy when they historically weren't even guided.


You have the same "omniscient cruisemissile effect" in normal civ2 games. That's the way the AI works. You can't really do anything about it. The best way to escort/protect ships is with aircraft.

AGRICOLA is offline AGRICOLA
Prince
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:20
  Old Post 21-05-2005 19:59
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I've been taking an initial look at general and US playability considerations.

Congratulations, the scen looks to be extremely finely crafted, from the game map to the unit icons. That said, and meant, here is my nitpicking contribution.

The resource window in the city window has caused me to make modifications to ICONS and TERRAIN to remedy the following problems.

1. The trade arrows are the same color as the food icons.
2. RRII are too faint to be seen easily. This also applies to the game map where, IMO, the RRII's should be darker than RR's.
3. The red markings which indicate that a square is in use by another city are too cluttered. I would suggest removing the X in the centre and make the entire perimeter of the square red or, preferably, white. That way one can more easily see what is in the square.


I've edited the PEOPLE file with icons from another scen. IMO, most of of the people look like nearly identical, unshaven vagrants from a police lineup. For example, the entertainer (US) is at first glance identical to one of the contented US citizens because the “MP” on its helmet is faint and yellow as opposed to the bold white letters on actual MP helmets. The same holds true for some of the other civs. The beancounters and Einsteins look like hit men from one of Eivind's Mafia mobs and their icons show nothing that might indicate their fields of expertise. It would also help a great deal if the background colors were different for happy, content and unhappy citizens as well as for each type of specialist.


I think that in order to be consistent with other civs, Roosevelt and Hirohito should be the heads of state for the US and Japan. I can live with Tojo but Eisenhower seems to be a particularly poor choice; in 1940 he was either a colonel or brigadier general, not a head of state.


This has been mentioned before. The complete absence of any intelligence on other civs seems a bit unreal. By all means eliminate all communication with other civs but please consider reinstating the Foreign Minister’s report so that there is a very moderate amount of info for it and for the Demographics pulldown. It is interesting to see if one is making any progress against ones enemies. There is always a certain amount of intelligence available, even in wartime.


I realize that you don’t have much "wiggle" room for unit A/D’s but some of the numbers could be seriously questioned, such as the identical A’s of battle cruisers (13" guns) and battleships (14"- 16" guns) and the identical A/D of the Russian I-16 and the Japanese Zero. The one was obsolete in 1940 while the other was a world class fighter.


I really regret to say this when I'm about to start playing the US, but I have a feeling that the US civ may be a bit too powerful. It is just a gut feel and is based on the three great wonders that they have . . . . Pyramids, Adam Smith, Michaelangelo . . . . their large initial treasury and their seeming immunity to the unhappiness due to absent units, bombers or nukes that usually plagues a democracy. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out.


Finally, I am nearly apoplectic that Canadian units are on US soil near Boston and Pittsburgh at the start of the scen. We Americans won the War of 1812 so either send the damned intruders back to where they belong or we’ll torch Ottawa. Fortunately, the Mexicans appear to be more respectful of US territory so there are no current plans to send marines to level the Halls of Montezuma.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
time: 05:20
  Old Post 21-05-2005 23:55 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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Many thanks, good gentlemen!

I am pressed for time at the moment, but you all have been busy, I am impressed! :B

I will be back tomorrow to fully deal with all the bugs and comments in turn...Many thanks for the feedback!

PS
Just for the record, the naval and V2 unit powerss have been scaled back...

Exile is offline Exile
King
of the Benighted Realms
Sep 2000
time: 23:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 00:17
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"unshaven vagrants from a police lineup"



Hey! Some of my best friends are unshaven vagrants.

Boco is offline Boco
Prince
who was once King for a week.
Jan 2001
time: 00:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 06:46 Visit Boco's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Eivind IV *
How'd you make the partisan unit invisable?

quote:
Originally posted by curtsibling
It is a ToT unit flag...

Typically, you can only see the unit when it attacks. It's also visible from the city view screen. IIRC, when you first try to move a unit into a square containing such a unit, your unit appears to be nonresponsive. The second attempt causes combat. After an invisible unit has been spotted, it remains invisible, but its label appears in the status frame when the square it occupies is selected.

It's a far more effective flag at hiding than the submarine flag. In fact you might consider giving subs this flag along with the naval superiority or attack flag. That is, if you don't mind shore bombardment.

Vagrancy is highly underrated. Razors just the opposite.

rmsharpe is offline rmsharpe
Warlord
Minneapolis
Aug 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 07:35
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And just where the heck is Instanbul?

Broken_Erika is offline Broken_Erika
Prince
shoving your soul into a jar of mayonaise
Oct 2004
time: 00:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 08:28 Visit Broken_Erika's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by rmsharpe
And just where the heck is Instanbul?

35 mile southwest of outstanbul,

Patine is offline Patine
Prince
Edmonton, Canada
Mar 2002
time: 22:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 08:42 Visit Patine's homepage!
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Curt, why can't the Germans develop atomic weapons? In fact, in every WW2 scen I've come across, they can't. Many seem to forget that Germany was racing the US to the bomb in late '44 and much of '45, and only their surrender ended this. I can't understand why no one allows them the possibility of building A-bombs before or coterminous with the US. They came very close, historically. Can you or anyone shed light on this mysterious convention?

rmsharpe is offline rmsharpe
Warlord
Minneapolis
Aug 2001
time: 23:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 11:40
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I kind of liked that in the old ToT Dictator that everyone had jet bombers, atomic bombs, etc.

AGRICOLA is offline AGRICOLA
Prince
Canadian bush & Florida
Feb 2003
time: 00:20
  Old Post 22-05-2005 14:45
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Curt, could you please take a second look at these items? They have a huge impact on the game, particularly for the US.

a. Designating mountains as impassable terrain for engineers.
b. The absence of roads and RR’s in areas where they did exist in 1940.
c. The topography of some parts of the game map

a. Designating mountains as impassable makes it impossible to mine any resources on mountainous terrain or to build a road through mountains. I think that engineers should have the same impassable terrain override as some other ground units.


b. The US transport network is grossly misrepresented. The US had an excellent RR network in 1940's (230,000+ miles = 30% of the world's RR mileage), not the sparse system of roads with illogical gaps shown on the game map. The Northern and Central Pacific railroads have been eliminated so that there are no direct links between Helena and Spokane or between Salt Lake City and San Francisco. Pittsburgh has no link to the east coast. N-S routes are completely lacking in the central part of the country. There is no way that in 1940, it would have taken months to move an American unit from the east coast to the west coast. The same argument applies to the absence of the Trans-Siberian RR in the Soviet Union. Without that RR, the Soviets could not have have moved their Siberian divisions to the Moscow front by December 1941.

There are similar examples elsewhere on the map. There is no road between Germany and Italy; the two Swedish cities; the Spanish cities; Kuala Lumpur and Singapore; Sendai and Aomori; Rangoon and Mandalay; and Ankara and Istanbul. There are no road links whatsoever to Budapest and Athens. Chelyabinsk certainly had a RR connection to the west. Two Canadian transcontinental RR’s seem to have disappeared.

My suggestion is that:
- roads be added where they actually existed
- either the road multiplier be at least doubled or a few major RR’s put on the map where they existed in ’40.
- if the Trans-Siberian RR would unbalance things, a few sections (river crossings?) could be left as roads in order to slow down the traffic.


c. Making mountains impassable is ok if they are restricted to areas where they truly were impassable to 1940’s armies. However, there are no impassable mountains in the eastern US. The name Appalachian Mountains is a misnomer, Appalachian Hills would be more accurate. What the map shows as impassable mountains south of the Great Lakes are actually rolling hills with pretty decent farmland, at least in the valleys.

India is a special case. The atlases that I have checked show only small areas of non-agricultural land in central and southern India, not the massive jungle/tropical rain forest shown on the game map. That part of the country does not get enough rain to have jungle. There were roads (and RR’s) throughout the area in 1940. The map of India is simply incorrect. Hyderabad and Madras were not isolated from the rest of the country by difficult terrain.

I would suggest changing all mountains in the eastern US to hills, changing the Indian jungle to grassland or plains and adding roads to the two isolated Indian cities.

curtsibling is offline curtsibling
King
of the Kill!
May 2002
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  Old Post 22-05-2005 15:03 Visit curtsibling's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Curt, could you please take a second look at these items? They have a huge impact on the game, particularly for the US.

a. Designating mountains as impassable terrain for engineers.
b. The absence of roads and RR’s in areas where they did exist in 1940.
c. The topography of some parts of the game map

a. Designating mountains as impassable makes it impossible to mine any resources on mountainous terrain or to build a road through mountains. I think that engineers should have the same impassable terrain override as some other ground units.


b. The US transport network is grossly misrepresented. The US had an excellent RR network in 1940's (230,000+ miles = 30% of the world's RR mileage), not the sparse system of roads with illogical gaps shown on the game map. The Northern and Central Pacific railroads have been eliminated so that there are no direct links between Helena and Spokane or between Salt Lake City and San Francisco. Pittsburgh has no link to the east coast. N-S routes are completely lacking in the central part of the country. There is no way that in 1940, it would have taken months to move an American unit from the east coast to the west coast. The same argument applies to the absence of the Trans-Siberian RR in the Soviet Union. Without that RR, the Soviets could not have have moved their Siberian divisions to the Moscow front by December 1941.

There are similar examples elsewhere on the map. There is no road between Germany and Italy; the two Swedish cities; the Spanish cities; Kuala Lumpur and Singapore; Sendai and Aomori; Rangoon and Mandalay; and Ankara and Istanbul. There are no road links whatsoever to Budapest and Athens. Chelyabinsk certainly had a RR connection to the west. Two Canadian transcontinental RR’s seem to have disappeared.

My suggestion is that:
- roads be added where they actually existed
- either the road multiplier be at least doubled or a few major RR’s put on the map where they existed in ’40.
- if the Trans-Siberian RR would unbalance things, a few sections (river crossings?) could be left as roads in order to slow down the traffic.


c. Making mountains impassable is ok if they are restricted to areas where they truly were impassable to 1940’s armies. However, there are no impassable mountains in the eastern US. The name Appalachian Mountains is a misnomer, Appalachian Hills would be more accurate. What the map shows as impassable mountains south of the Great Lakes are actually rolling hills with pretty decent farmland, at least in the valleys.

India is a special case. The atlases that I have checked show only small areas of non-agricultural land in central and southern India, not the massive jungle/tropical rain forest shown on the game map. That part of the country does not get enough rain to have jungle. There were roads (and RR’s) throughout the area in 1940. The map of India is simply incorrect. Hyderabad and Madras were not isolated from the rest of the country by difficult terrain.

I would suggest changing all mountains in the eastern US to hills, changing the Indian jungle to grassland or plains and adding roads to the two isolated Indian cities.


I will definitely give the RR networks another look and
make sure all the cities mentioned have a good link.

I don't have many maps of 1940's tranport networks
kicking around and I have to make do with what the CIV2
engine can represent. But there are some real flaws in the
map features that can be fixed...

 
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